Two More ISU Players Arrested

[BirdsEyeView]

I appreciate your more rational comments regarding this situation. Most Redbirds fans are embarrassed
and concerned about this recurring problem but to say Muller "just doesn't care about discipline and would rather win at all costs.' is just wrong. He ran off Hawkins and DJ Clayton because of their issues. Could the Birds have won the Valley last year with Hawkins & Clayton as Seniors if winning was all that matters?

We shall see what happens with MY but there is a lot left to play out here.

Okay, that's fair. Maybe that quote was a bit of hyperbole, but that point still remains.

Also, how much of Hawkins was Muller "running him off" as opposed to Hawkins seeking greener pastures? I always assumed/was led to believe that was more of Hawkins decision than Mullers.

If Teddy Hawkins wanted to be on the ISU team last season he would have been on the team.

You know what they say when people assume...

[Redbirdgrad]

If Teddy Hawkins wanted to be on the ISU team last season he would have been on the team.

Citation needed please.

[tribecalledquest]

If Teddy Hawkins wanted to be on the ISU team last season he would have been on the team.

Citation needed please.

Show your citation that he was run off by Coach Muller. Then I will show mine

[Redbirdgrad]

If Teddy Hawkins wanted to be on the ISU team last season he would have been on the team.

Citation needed please.

Show your citation that he was run off by Coach Muller. Then I will show mine

Pretty much the comeback I thought I'd get. You made the statement, not me.

[tribecalledquest]

Pretty much the comeback I thought I'd get. You made the statement, not me.

Someone else said Dan Muller ran off Teddy Hawkins. That is not true. If it is, then show the citation. The burden of proof isn't on me.

But if you want proof I will start recording all conversations I have with people.

[Redhawk]

Pretty much the comeback I thought I'd get. You made the statement, not me.

Someone else said Dan Muller ran off Teddy Hawkins. That is not true. If it is, then show the citation. The burden of proof isn't on me.

But if you want proof I will start recording all conversations I have with people.

This is where Muller loses in the court of public opinion. He keeps everything internal so everyone assumes there is no punishment or that the players are making some choices on their own. Hawkins was reclassified as a Senior (by Muller) even though he would have had another year of eligibility with the Birds if he met academic benchmarks. He was advised it was his last season as a Redbird. The decision to stay or move on was not made by Hawkins.

You are entitled to your opinion but this was clearly acknowledged prior to his last season in Normal!

[Redbirdgrad]

You're telling me that I need to cite a statement that I didn't make. That's ludicrous.

The evidence of what transpired with him supports the statement made by another individual.
You countered that statement with a supposed statement of fact.
I asked for you to cite your said statement.

You can't.

You're scrambling.

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

Pretty much the comeback I thought I'd get. You made the statement, not me.

Someone else said Dan Muller ran off Teddy Hawkins. That is not true. If it is, then show the citation. The burden of proof isn't on me.

But if you want proof I will start recording all conversations I have with people.

This is where Muller loses in the court of public opinion. He keeps everything internal so everyone assumes there is no punishment or that the players are making some choices on their own. Hawkins was reclassified as a Senior (by Muller) even though he would have had another year of eligibility with the Birds if he met academic benchmarks. He was advised it was his last season as a Redbird. The decision to stay or move on was not made by Hawkins.

You are entitled to your opinion but this was clearly acknowledged prior to his last season in Normal!

If Muller really want Hawkins around he would have been gone before the 16/17 season.

[tribecalledquest]

You're telling me that I need to cite a statement that I didn't make. That's ludicrous.

The evidence of what transpired with him supports the statement made by another individual.
You countered that statement with a supposed statement of fact.
I asked for you to cite your said statement.

You can't.

You're scrambling.

Sorry. I had the wrong person. Someone on this thread said Muller ran off Hawkins.

[Mikovio]

I agree were done here. You just want it to be true so bad you won't even let the facts com out and the legal process play out. Get a neck brace so you can look up at the Birds this season

I figure you guys will be watching the NCAAs on the same couch you always do. I got a nice big 65 incher for mine, no neck brace required.

-Waiting for the truth to come out on this case is probably wise here. A practicing attorney of law should also know the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" before casting judgement on this specific case

The police could bust in a door and find a guy holding an axe dripping with blood, surrounded by dead bodies covered in axe wounds, and the guy could say "I killed these people with an axe," but the courts still have to consider him innocent until he's given due process and proven guilty. Great point! Except we're not the courts! That means the rest of the world doesn't have to assume he's innocent. And I can look at his many run ins with the law and conclude, yeah, this guy doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

-Finally, it's clear to me BCPanther, all Bradley fans, and some others truly hate ISUr. Does not mean the whole fan-base should be hated, because we either (a) grew up in Bloomington-Normal (myself) or (b) went to school there. The same can be said for Shocker Nation. Yes, Shocker Fever is the biggest douche known to man, but he is not a reflection on the ENTIRE fan base. He is just the most vocal message board troll there is.
You can hate ISUr for having bad apples or good apples that make poor decisions. You can hate Muller for recruiting these risky kids rather than upstanding Iowa farm boys, but to generalize a fan base due to message board posts is asinine. I would assume less than 5% of those that follow our programs actually post on these message boards...think about that when you generalize.

I would have dropped this two days ago if I didn't see posts filled with complete nonsense trying to place the blame on everyone else but Milik for what happened, and then shockingly even posts defending the actions if they were true, and then attacks on Brian Wardle. It's not what I come on here to talk about. I'm allergic to bullshit and d-bags.