Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

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Re: Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

Postby RacerJoeD » July 1st, 2018, 7:06 am

BEARZ77 wrote:
Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:My point is they aren't doing ANYTHING! They are sitting on their ass while conferences make moves. Eventually, they are going to watch conference move past them while they're idle. Again, doing nothing is taking a step back because other conferences are moving. Just to maintain position they have to do more. To improve position they need to do A LOT more.


While I agree that I would like to see the league in a more proactive role, just doing stuff to be doing it because other leagues are is silly. I've always been in favor of selective expansion and Murray is fine by me, but I've never equated that with increased bids or status just as Valpo didn't result in that this year; and Valpo is a fine program. Much of what I see being suggested here is just so much rearranging the deck chairs on the Titatnic, with likely similar impact. I don't have the answer other than under the current structure[ NCAA] individual teams will have to carve out their own increased opportunities thru aggressive scheduling and winning. That's what works when a team does it; it's hard to do, becoming incresingly more difficult to do, but it does work when done. Getting more wins against Valley teams , even quality Valley teams, doesn't sway the moment. When MSU got snubbed with a 21 RPI, they had more top 50 wins than many other teams selected to go, but a majority were against other Valley teams and so they were discounted. Creighton also had a similar year that season and people forget they also got snubbed & we could have had 6 teams based on RPI and top 50 wins criteria. Didn't matter.


A valid and reasonable point. I guess the reasoning would be that the goal of changes should be to narrow the perceived gap (and it is a perception not a reality) between the MVC and the A10/AAC. Much of the changes made by the NCAA that have positively effected conferences like the Valley have been pushed by public outcry. If the Valley creates the narrative that they are the preeminent MM basketball conference, the narrative changes. Adding Valpo helps in that, no matter what the early results have been.

It may seem like rearranging deck chairs, but in the perception game, sometimes a new paint job is enough, especially when there are runs to the final four involved.
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Re: Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

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Re: Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

Postby tribecalledquest » July 1st, 2018, 8:15 am

Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:
My point is they aren't doing ANYTHING! They are sitting on their ass while conferences make moves. Eventually, they are going to watch conference move past them while they're idle. Again, doing nothing is taking a step back because other conferences are moving. Just to maintain position they have to do more. To improve position they need to do A LOT more.


What league has jumped the MVC in the last 10-15 years based on moves like this? People just like "action" in the offseason. I get it. But going to a 20-game schedule or an 11-team league doesn't make the MVC better.

I know people don't like hearing it but the league is in a really good place right now.
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Re: Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

Postby tribecalledquest » July 1st, 2018, 8:17 am

RacerJoeD wrote:
BEARZ77 wrote:
Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:My point is they aren't doing ANYTHING! They are sitting on their ass while conferences make moves. Eventually, they are going to watch conference move past them while they're idle. Again, doing nothing is taking a step back because other conferences are moving. Just to maintain position they have to do more. To improve position they need to do A LOT more.


While I agree that I would like to see the league in a more proactive role, just doing stuff to be doing it because other leagues are is silly. I've always been in favor of selective expansion and Murray is fine by me, but I've never equated that with increased bids or status just as Valpo didn't result in that this year; and Valpo is a fine program. Much of what I see being suggested here is just so much rearranging the deck chairs on the Titatnic, with likely similar impact. I don't have the answer other than under the current structure[ NCAA] individual teams will have to carve out their own increased opportunities thru aggressive scheduling and winning. That's what works when a team does it; it's hard to do, becoming incresingly more difficult to do, but it does work when done. Getting more wins against Valley teams , even quality Valley teams, doesn't sway the moment. When MSU got snubbed with a 21 RPI, they had more top 50 wins than many other teams selected to go, but a majority were against other Valley teams and so they were discounted. Creighton also had a similar year that season and people forget they also got snubbed & we could have had 6 teams based on RPI and top 50 wins criteria. Didn't matter.


A valid and reasonable point. I guess the reasoning would be that the goal of changes should be to narrow the perceived gap (and it is a perception not a reality) between the MVC and the A10/AAC. Much of the changes made by the NCAA that have positively effected conferences like the Valley have been pushed by public outcry. If the Valley creates the narrative that they are the preeminent MM basketball conference, the narrative changes. Adding Valpo helps in that, no matter what the early results have been.

It may seem like rearranging deck chairs, but in the perception game, sometimes a new paint job is enough, especially when there are runs to the final four involved.


Perception to who? I think in the college hoops community the Valley is accurately perceived as one of the top Non-BCS/Big East conferences. That hasn't changed in 15 years.
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Re: Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

Postby RacerJoeD » July 1st, 2018, 8:25 am

Perception to national news media. Look no further than last selection cycle where the A10 was assumed to be a multibid league and the Valley wasn’t. Personally I don’t think the A10 was really any better than the Valley was last season, but one conference got the benefit of the doubt and one conference didn’t.

And what conference has passed the MVC by adding/expanding? The AAC and even the A10. Both took losses from being poached and made solid additions to maintain/advance their level. College hoops is an arms race at this point and standing pat generally means losing ground.
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Re: Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » July 1st, 2018, 9:27 am

Perception to the selection committee. Yes, they are currently in the top 5 every year of mid-major conferences. Like I said, if you do nothing that is taking a step backwards because other conferences are moving forward. Eventually, doing nothing will allow them to pass you. To stay right where y hey are they need to keep up and do more. To actually move forward into the AAC territory, which is possible, they need you do a lot more. I think the MSU president would do more if we would put him in Elgin's position. Elgin has been in the same spot for too long he just doesn't care.
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Re: Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

Postby tribecalledquest » July 1st, 2018, 9:30 am

Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:Perception to the selection committee. Yes, they are currently in the top 5 every year of mid-major conferences. Like I said, if you do nothing that is taking a step backwards because other conferences are moving forward. Eventually, doing nothing will allow them to pass you. To stay right where y hey are they need to keep up and do more. To actually move forward into the AAC territory, which is possible, they need you do a lot more. I think the MSU president would do more if we would put him in Elgin's position. Elgin has been in the same spot for too long he just doesn't care.


So a 20 game league schedule would move the MVC past the AAC? The A-10?

The only way leagues make "jumps" is by the teams in the league. Not by fancy scheduling.
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Re: Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

Postby IWokeUpLikeThis » July 1st, 2018, 12:44 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:
My point is they aren't doing ANYTHING! They are sitting on their ass while conferences make moves. Eventually, they are going to watch conference move past them while they're idle. Again, doing nothing is taking a step back because other conferences are moving. Just to maintain position they have to do more. To improve position they need to do A LOT more.


But going to a 20-game schedule or an 11-team league doesn't make the MVC better.


It would’ve given Loyola 2 T1 and 1 T2 games. Murray swept the Valley’s #2 & #3 teams. It was their 4th best team since 2010 so it was closer to their norm than an outlier.
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Re: Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » July 1st, 2018, 1:44 pm

tribecalledquest wrote:
Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:Perception to the selection committee. Yes, they are currently in the top 5 every year of mid-major conferences. Like I said, if you do nothing that is taking a step backwards because other conferences are moving forward. Eventually, doing nothing will allow them to pass you. To stay right where y hey are they need to keep up and do more. To actually move forward into the AAC territory, which is possible, they need you do a lot more. I think the MSU president would do more if we would put him in Elgin's position. Elgin has been in the same spot for too long he just doesn't care.


So a 20 game league schedule would move the MVC past the AAC? The A-10?

The only way leagues make "jumps" is by the teams in the league. Not by fancy scheduling.


I guess you didn't read my earlier post saying this specific thing isn't necessarily what is needed but they need to do something.

Reading...isn't for everybody...
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Re: Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

Postby tribecalledquest » July 1st, 2018, 9:04 pm

Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:
tribecalledquest wrote:
Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:Perception to the selection committee. Yes, they are currently in the top 5 every year of mid-major conferences. Like I said, if you do nothing that is taking a step backwards because other conferences are moving forward. Eventually, doing nothing will allow them to pass you. To stay right where y hey are they need to keep up and do more. To actually move forward into the AAC territory, which is possible, they need you do a lot more. I think the MSU president would do more if we would put him in Elgin's position. Elgin has been in the same spot for too long he just doesn't care.


So a 20 game league schedule would move the MVC past the AAC? The A-10?

The only way leagues make "jumps" is by the teams in the league. Not by fancy scheduling.


I guess you didn't read my earlier post saying this specific thing isn't necessarily what is needed but they need to do something.

Reading...isn't for everybody...


Ok. So "doing something" for the sake of "doing something". That is what you suggest?
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Re: Big Sky moving to 11/20 format

Postby TheAsianSensation » July 1st, 2018, 10:02 pm

CUSA and Sun Belt changes were relevant to us from a strategic standpoint.

This move is irrelevant to us. This is pure budget-saving moves from a bottom 5 basketball conference. They're not trying to do anything to manipulate their seed in March. Nothing to see here; move along.
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