Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

[BCPanther]

Meh, Soccer is solid and it wouldn't shock me if somebody added men's soccer either. It's not a terribly expensive sport and can be counteracted for Title IX reasons by adding something like women's bowling that is equally as inexpensive.

Football is going to be just fine because when North Dakota comes in, I think Western Illinois moves out to the OVC. They've made no secret that they aren't thrilled with the Summit League being so Dakota focused plus they'll dominate the OVC in football and can probably be more competitive in other sports than they currently are. Plus, it allows the MVFC to stay at only missing one team instead of two.

I am of the opinion that if Murray was the slam dunk everybody here seems to think they are, they would have made 11 work for a few years. They did it in the mid-90s when Evansville came in before Tulsa moved out. Murray wasn't a strong enough add on their own to make it worth pulling the trigger.

[VUGrad1314]

Here's some realignment musings because I think we may be getting closer to something actually happening:


After nine years as an associate member of the MVC in Men's Soccer Central Arkansas is moving to the Sun Belt Conference to take up associate member status there. On the surface this looks like a ho-hum move that only affects one program at one school. However, this could touch off a series of moves that could significantly alter the conference landscape throughout the midwest as well as the WAC. Here's why:

NCAA leagues need at least 6 members in order to have an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament. The defection of Central Arkansas leaves the MVC at 6 men's soccer members (Loyola Valpo Missouri State Evansville Drake and Bradley). Luckily, this appears to be a stable group meaning that the MVC's auto bid shouldn't be under any immediate threat; however, when coupled with pressure from football brought on by North Dakota's anticipated accession to the MVFC in 2020 giving the conference 11 teams, as well as the difficult scheduling landscape in men's basketball, it feels like expansionary pressure is only building for the MVC as it looks to shore up men's soccer, balance football, and bolster men's basketball. Here's where things get interesting:

Murray State sponsors all 3 of these key sports received a site visit the last time the MVC went looking for a team and was extremely receptive to the idea of joining in addition to being a good fit within the conference footprint. They would have to be the odds-on favorite for a spot given their success in many key sports assuming their new AD is as pro-MVC as the previous one. The OVC would probably look to North Alabama Kennesaw State Western Illinois or Robert Morris (football only) as football replacements for Murray State. If the replacement team is indeed football only then Lipscomb is a very likely olympic sports replacement unless a school like Belmont blocks them.

Of course, the MVC has long held to the position that 11 teams is untenable. In the past, they have approached Belmont and have been rebuffed. Perhaps the loss of Murray State changes their thinking but that seems unlikely. It is more likely that the 12th team comes from the Horizon League which is where the MVC has gone the past two times it has needed replacements.

The danger there is that any defection from the HL of any schools the MVC might want (Milwaukee UIC NKU Wright State most likely) threatens the HL's auto bid in baseball. This is easily fixable by adding Fort Wayne or Western Illinois or by coaxing a school like Bellarmine or Southern Indiana to move up. If the HL adds a SL team it throws multiple sports into danger of losing their auto bids.

The SL can stave off this disaster with D2 move ups (Bellarmine USI Augustana or a Minnesota school) or by readmitting UMKC and Chicago State from the WAC. Both teams would likely relish the travel cost savings but their departure would drop the WAC to just 6 total members threatening its very existence once CSU-Bakersfield leaves in 2020. Would the remaining schools wait around to see what moves could be made to stabilize the conference or would they seek more stable homes? My money is on the latter.

Whether it comes from the SL the HL the MVC the MWC(Gonzaga? BYU? New Mexico State?) or even the WCC (Seattle? Denver? Cal-Baptist? Grand Canyon?) It feels as though we are one move away from significantly altering the college sports landscape.

An enjoyable read and it’s especially interesting for me to hear how other sports could effect a leagues decisions. I really only care about basketball so I never considered other things before.

Everybody basically already agreed Murray is the essentially the next team to join the MVC. It’s just a question who is the twelfth. That’s really what I was hoping to get from your post. I still maintain we snatch up Murray asap, then wait for the pieces to fall before taking #12.

Wouldn't surprise me if the 12th is Wichita State

I believe the Shocker ship has sailed. If the AAC gets raided by the Big XII I could see the Mountain West taking them and using them as a carrot to lure Gonzaga and BYU to the Conference to create a western version of the BE\AAC. Sadly that's probably much better than anything the MVC can put together unless they built their own super league by adding Murray Belmont Wright State NKU the Dakotas etc.And even then and even then Gonzaga BYU and the ability to recruit California and possibly Texas are trump cards the MVC just doesn't have.

The Valley's best hopes are as follows:

1. Convincing SLU and\or Dayton (short term solution at best and likely not viable at all)

2. Convincing Belmont

3. Hoping NKU makes good on its potential

4. Hoping that instability in the Summit shakes SDSU loose

5. Hoping that Lipscomb's recent rise is for real and that they're more ambitious than Belmont

6. Hoping that some program in\near our footprint (Milwaukee UDM Oakland Wright State UIC Oral Roberts Little Rock) becomes a consistently viable program Hoping for another Loyola )

7. Biting the bullet and pulling in teams from way outside the footprint (UTA SFA BYU GCU NMSU) Not going to happen

Meh, Soccer is solid and it wouldn't shock me if somebody added men's soccer either. It's not a terribly expensive sport and can be counteracted for Title IX reasons by adding something like women's bowling that is equally as inexpensive.

Football is going to be just fine because when North Dakota comes in, I think Western Illinois moves out to the OVC. They've made no secret that they aren't thrilled with the Summit League being so Dakota focused plus they'll dominate the OVC in football and can probably be more competitive in other sports than they currently are. Plus, it allows the MVFC to stay at only missing one team instead of two.

I am of the opinion that if Murray was the slam dunk everybody here seems to think they are, they would have made 11 work for a few years. They did it in the mid-90s when Evansville came in before Tulsa moved out. Murray wasn't a strong enough add on their own to make it worth pulling the trigger.

Points taken on soccer and football I see Western Illinois as a really strong candidate to move in realignment scenarios. We disagree on Murray The reason they aren't here yet is because our non Belmont options for #12 were awful or insufficiently proven and it would have caused immediate issues for football that are better addressed when UND comes aboard. They didn't want the football headache too soon unless they had a perfect twelfth. Without that it made more sense to wait Murray is in if they want to be when decision time comes. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's Murray State (to make the ADs happy) and Milwaukee (to make the presidents happy) or someone like Oral Roberts or Little Rock to placate Missouri State.

[VUGrad1314]

I just saw this but SDSU cut their tennis programs. One has to wonder if they can't make tennis work in a geographically favorable conference can they make the move to the MVC? This also puts men's and womens tennis at 7 members which means one defection by any school puts the auto bid in the danger zone. In the case of mens tennis that number is at 7 WITH Valpo Drake and ISUr acting as associate members.

https://www.argusleader.com/story/sport ... 548700002/

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

Mentioning Dayton again is delusional.

SDSU cutting tennis (article is from last April) signifies nothing. Schools cut throwaway sports often. The “geographically favorable” conference spans from Denver to Tulsa to North Dakota to Indiana. SDSU made the same decision 95% of non-P6 schools make: why sink 7-digit costs (before counting facility upgrades) into a sport lucky to bring in 5-digit revenue? Total non-story.

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

After nine years as an associate member of the MVC in Men's Soccer Central Arkansas is moving to the Sun Belt Conference to take up associate member status there. On the surface this looks like a ho-hum move that only affects one program at one school. However, this could touch off a series of moves that could significantly alter the conference landscape throughout the midwest as well as the WAC. Here's why:

This is not how realignment works. Realignment is a trickle-down process. It starts and ends with the Presidents. The Presidents don’t care about shoring up men’s soccer or any other non-revenue sports. Those problems are fixed with associate membership band-aid’s (see: B1G Hockey adding ND/UND or B1G Lax adding JHU). They never drive actual expansion.

Presidents only care about perception: who do I want my school to be seen as a peer with? Can exposure with this school help my school recruit students? etc.

Whether it comes from the SL the HL the MVC the MWC(Gonzaga? BYU? New Mexico State?) or even the WCC (Seattle? Denver? Cal-Baptist? Grand Canyon?) It feels as though we are one move away from significantly altering the college sports landscape.

B1G adding someone significantly alters the college sports landscape. BXII adding someone significantly alters the college sports landscape. Mid-major realignment might be exciting but it is a blip on the radar.

[VUGrad1314]

Well at a minimum the Summit League is going to have to make some kind of move because SDSU's decision has dropped the SL to 5 womens tennis members which threatens their auto bid. I feel 100% certain in saying that UMKC will return to the Summit to restore the SL's auto bid and save money. Which threatens the WAC's bid in tennis. They can approach Cal Baptist and Utah Valley about starting the sport otherwise they'll have to go back to the D2 well.

[mvfcfan]

I still like Northern Kentucky a lot better than Belmont.

[VUGrad1314]

I still like Northern Kentucky a lot better than Belmont.

Why's that?

[UNDfan]

I just saw this but SDSU cut their tennis programs. One has to wonder if they can't make tennis work in a geographically favorable conference can they make the move to the MVC? This also puts men's and womens tennis at 7 members which means one defection by any school puts the auto bid in the danger zone. In the case of mens tennis that number is at 7 WITH Valpo Drake and ISUr acting as associate members.

https://www.argusleader.com/story/sport ... 548700002/

UND took SDSU's place so it still has the minimum number. SDSU should have dropped tennis and swimming years ago. Swimming was in a 25 yd pool and they don't have tennis courts except for the basketball courts or their football or practice facility now. UND,dropped,swimming as that good but old,building is scheduled for demolition for a new STEM bldg.

Still say the Montana's, Idaho,,Weber st, and maybe EWU will join the Summit. Tennis is required.in that league. ORU would join the WAC, PFW would join the Horizon and,maybe WIU to the OVC.

Murray St and maybe UALR to the MVC.

[VUGrad1314]

I have heard nothing but message board chatter about the SL starting football but even if that were proposed (which would be an absolute FCS superconference) wouldn't that league present a lot of the same travel issues the Dakotas left the Big Sky to get away from in the first place? It seems to me they've already had this conference minus Idaho and the Dakotas wanted out. And why would these Big Sky schools leave a league with more favorable travel for a league dominated by the Dakotas with its tournament in Sioux Falls? It doesn't make practical sense.

If something happened to the Summit I could see the WAC for ORU but otherwise I think it's MVC or bust for them. FW to the HL makes all the sense in the world and in fact should have happened already. WIU to the OVC could be a win for them competitively but I'm not sure it's a travel win. Furthermore I get the sense that they're happy with their present arrangement but would move for a Horizon League invite if they should get one which is unlikely.