Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

[UNDfan]

I have heard nothing but message board chatter about the SL starting football but even if that were proposed (which would be an absolute FCS superconference) wouldn't that league present a lot of the same travel issues the Dakotas left the Big Sky to get away from in the first place? It seems to me they've already had this conference minus Idaho and the Dakotas wanted out. And why would these Big Sky schools leave a league with more favorable travel for a league dominated by the Dakotas with its tournament in Sioux Falls? It doesn't make practical sense.

If something happened to the Summit I could see the WAC for ORU but otherwise I think it's MVC or bust for them. FW to the HL makes all the sense in the world and in fact should have happened already. WIU to the OVC could be a win for them competitively but I'm not sure it's a travel win. Furthermore I get the sense that they're happy with their present arrangement but would move for a Horizon League invite if they should get one which is unlikely.

The MVC has shown contempt for any dAkota basketball so they need to reform the Summit schooland find another way.

Moving to FBS would do that. The MVFC has just used the Dakotas for fillers, but it turned out differently. The Dakotas need to look west and join the Montana's and Idaho. That league would be on par with the MAC or Sunbelt and its,basketball would improve. Plus the academics and research would blow the MVC out. It has the basics for a national power hockey league right now.

[valleydays]

I realize that Murray State seems like a slam dunk eventually getting an MVC invite -- at least on this board -- but I'd like to someday hear the same sentiments from someone officially affiliated with the league. I know a few presidents and ADs have said nice things, but there's just not enough meat on the bone. Maybe it's the reluctance of slicing the pie one more time, but this "can't work with 11" is still nonsense, and I still wonder if expansion beyond 10 will ever happen.

On top of that, I'm not sure Murray's position is as strong as it was last time. The president has left, the AD has left, and state budget problems are barreling down (maybe not as bad as Illinois, but potentially close). Right now, Murray has interims in the president and AD positions. Will the next to fill those roles be as gung-ho about the Valley as the previous ones were? And will the budget allow such a move, one that was going to be close financially anyway?

As I think I've mentioned before, full disclosure, I am a Murray State grad and joined this board when the university was allegedly being considered for a spot. It seemed to me then and now that if the Valley wanted Murray, it would have acted then, 11 be damned. I can only conclude that the "lords of the MVC" don't see Murray State as "No. 11" but No. 12, only getting serious consideration if a (better) preferred No. 11 is found.

I wish it wasn't so, as I'd love to see the Racers in the MVC, as except for football, they'd still be a good, competitive fit. But I'm not sure those that can make it happen feel that way or ever really have.

[UNDfan]

Loyola's Final Four run may have postponed Murray's invite because the Valley doesn't want to divide the spoils among 12.

[VUGrad1314]

I have heard nothing but message board chatter about the SL starting football but even if that were proposed (which would be an absolute FCS superconference) wouldn't that league present a lot of the same travel issues the Dakotas left the Big Sky to get away from in the first place? It seems to me they've already had this conference minus Idaho and the Dakotas wanted out. And why would these Big Sky schools leave a league with more favorable travel for a league dominated by the Dakotas with its tournament in Sioux Falls? It doesn't make practical sense.

If something happened to the Summit I could see the WAC for ORU but otherwise I think it's MVC or bust for them. FW to the HL makes all the sense in the world and in fact should have happened already. WIU to the OVC could be a win for them competitively but I'm not sure it's a travel win. Furthermore I get the sense that they're happy with their present arrangement but would move for a Horizon League invite if they should get one which is unlikely.

The MVC has shown contempt for any dAkota basketball so they need to reform the Summit schooland find another way.

Moving to FBS would do that. The MVFC has just used the Dakotas for fillers, but it turned out differently. The Dakotas need to look west and join the Montana's and Idaho. That league would be on par with the MAC or Sunbelt and its,basketball would improve. Plus the academics and research would blow the MVC out. It has the basics for a national power hockey league right now.

Being concerned about travel when the nearest Dakota school is like 5+ hours from the Iowa schools and like 9-10 hours from everyone else is not showing contempt for their basketball. In fact many myself included have been very complimentary about SDSU and to a lesser extent NDSU and USD for what they might bring to the conference it's just hard to see any Dakota school leaving the setup they've built for themselves. The Dakotas situation in the Summit is the same reason we can't seem to lure Belmont from the OVC. They run the Summit. They own it. The league office and tournament are right there for them (save for a brief move of the OVC Tournament to Evansville which Murray State helped orchestrate but may or may not be permanent) And I don't see the MVC taking all four Dakota schools because they don't add much new recruiting territory and I've never seen them all firing on all cylinders at once meaning potential RPI concerns.

Also, if travel costs are a concern for North Dakota and causes them to switch leagues, I can't see much of an appetite for going FBS. Ditto for SDSU who are cutting programs and seem happy with the current status quo. I have heard that Montana has no desire to go FBS. Idaho just dropped I can't see them going back up so soon. I don't think EWU or Weber State want to go either. You're not only asking these teams to incur massive travel costs but also additional scholarship cost and transfer fees. It just doesn't seem likely. Where would the money to improve basketball come from?

As for Academics, the MVC could tap Milwaukee or UIC two R1 Universities on the shoulder at any time and call them up to the conference and that would bolster their academic profile considerably. And they probably would have already done it too if those schools' basketball was more consistent (UIC's recent success against MVC schools notwithstanding.)

If you want my advice on how to strengthen the Summit raid the WAC while you still can. There's some pretty strong programs there that would really help bolster the league like Utah Valley New Mexico State Grand Canyon Seattle U and even Cal Baptist. Just be mindful of travel costs and how far your institutions can stretch their budgets in that regard. If you're going to build a conference that stretches out to Utah Washington etc at least make it worthwhile for all your sports instead of trying to build a conference that is worse for olympic sports and at best a modest football upgrade.

[VUGrad1314]

I realize that Murray State seems like a slam dunk eventually getting an MVC invite -- at least on this board -- but I'd like to someday hear the same sentiments from someone officially affiliated with the league. I know a few presidents and ADs have said nice things, but there's just not enough meat on the bone. Maybe it's the reluctance of slicing the pie one more time, but this "can't work with 11" is still nonsense, and I still wonder if expansion beyond 10 will ever happen.

On top of that, I'm not sure Murray's position is as strong as it was last time. The president has left, the AD has left, and state budget problems are barreling down (maybe not as bad as Illinois, but potentially close). Right now, Murray has interims in the president and AD positions. Will the next to fill those roles be as gung-ho about the Valley as the previous ones were? And will the budget allow such a move, one that was going to be close financially anyway?

As I think I've mentioned before, full disclosure, I am a Murray State grad and joined this board when the university was allegedly being considered for a spot. It seemed to me then and now that if the Valley wanted Murray, it would have acted then, 11 be damned. I can only conclude that the "lords of the MVC" don't see Murray State as "No. 11" but No. 12, only getting serious consideration if a (better) preferred No. 11 is found.

I wish it wasn't so, as I'd love to see the Racers in the MVC, as except for football, they'd still be a good, competitive fit. But I'm not sure those that can make it happen feel that way or ever really have.

All the talk from Commissioner Elgin and institutional presidets is that they want 12 but it has to be the right 12. What that means remains to be seen. Unfortunately the MVC is extremely deliberate and tight lipped about these things so information is hard to come by. The general consensus based on what I have read is that the expansion will happen fairly soon and that if Murray State wants a spot at that time they will have it.

[IllinoisState]

As for Academics, the MVC could tap Milwaukee or UIC two R1 Universities on the shoulder at any time and call them up to the conference and that would bolster their academic profile considerably. And they probably would have already done it too if those schools' basketball was more consistent (UIC's recent success against MVC schools notwithstanding.)

Milwaukee would not help the MVC with academics at all. UIC would certainly, but I don't see us considering them. Loyola probably doesn't want another Chicago school and the rest of the conference probably doesn't want another Illinois school.

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

Uic only gets invited if Loyola becomes super successful and gets that big east bid. Doubtful. But if they ever did there wouldn't even be a search it would be uic 100% due to market

[Red]

I'm half serious that we should add Wichita State to the list of teams in the poll because when the AAC breaks apart at the seams and it becomes a total crap conference for basketball the Shox just might say goodbye to the AAC too.

[VUGrad1314]

There's another option you're not considering here: If the PAC 12 doesn't make a move the Mountain West becomes an option for SMU Tulsa Wichita State whoever gets left out of the Big XII. They can also add schools like New Mexico State or GCU as well if they show enough. At that point the Mountain West begins to look very attractive to the likes of Gonzaga, and we all know that wherever Gonzaga goes BYU and possibly SMC will follow. Then what you have is a western version of the old Big East. I really think in an AAC implosion scenario Wichita State becomes the carrot to finally entice Gonzaga into the Mountain West. Though I have to believe that if we stay strong and successful additions like Murray State Belmont and SLU if we could get them all would go a long way toward getting the Shockers to at least consider the MVC. It just seems unlikely that all of those schools would be on board with joining.

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

I definitely think Elgin is waiting for the next dominos to fall. And I don't think murray an automatic. Depending how the dominos fall there are scenarios where wichita and St Louis want in. In that case murray is out unless they go 14 with Murray and wright or nku. All these ideas seem crazy but some big things are coming to realignment and we just don't know how will all shake out.

Wichita to the mountain west is doubful. I think byu, tulsa, smu, and others are first because of football ( byu will relent eventually). Gonzaga is a given though just because they are in a different level. Once they add them they would need to add two non football schools to keep it even. Wichita and someone else. Maybe gcu. That's only way WSU gets in to mwc.