Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

[ptownbraves]

“Waiting for restructuring” is the same reactive strategy the Valley employed in the 2000’s when it passed on expanding with Butler. Fast forward 10 years and the Valley had neither Butler’s 2 Final Fours nor its 2 biggest members.

In the early '90s when the decision to add Evansville was being made, Butler was a consideration to be added. However, Evansville was seen as the more promising school from a basketball standpoint.

"In 1994, the MVC added Evansville instead of Butler. It appeared the obvious choice. Evansville had made three NCAA tournaments in the previous five years and its average home attendance exceeded 10,000. Butler had not danced since 1962 and drew meager crowds."

This is from the former Peoria Journal Star sports editor and is a good read on MVC expansion after Wichita left. https://www.pjstar.com/sports/20170506/ ... ew-members

There was also mid-2000s when WKU wanted in and Butler showed interest. MVC turned it down to wait on SLU, WKU went FBS, Butler Butler’d, and the rest was history.

The MVC would have been a pit stop for Butler on their way with Creighton to the Big East. It would have been nice to have those few years when they dominated, but there's no way Butler would still be in the MVC if they had been added back in the mid 2000s.

Who knows, maybe being in a tougher conference and competing with Creighton, UNI and Wichita State around that time they don't have the tournament success they did.

[E-Villan]

“Waiting for restructuring” is the same reactive strategy the Valley employed in the 2000’s when it passed on expanding with Butler. Fast forward 10 years and the Valley had neither Butler’s 2 Final Fours nor its 2 biggest members.


There was also mid-2000s when WKU wanted in and Butler showed interest. MVC turned it down to wait on SLU, WKU went FBS, Butler Butler’d, and the rest was history.

The MVC would have been a pit stop for Butler on their way with Creighton to the Big East. It would have been nice to have those few years when they dominated, but there's no way Butler would still be in the MVC if they had been added back in the mid 2000s.

Who knows, maybe being in a tougher conference and competing with Creighton, UNI and Wichita State around that time they don't have the tournament success they did.

When the MCC imploded, nobody wanted Butler for good reason. In fact, nobody wanted them until they made their 2 miraculous runs to the finals. Butler made some good hires, and started feasting on a weak Horizon, much in the same manner Murray has done. Brad Stevens is a helluva coach, but there was a lot of bottled lightning, good karma and aligned stars to make those 2 runs.

It's a lot easier to make magic happen when you keep getting invites to the party. Those invites would have been much fewer in the MVC or A-10, and I am pretty sure they would still be in one of them if they had gotten in before the final runs.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Butler had 2 S16’s in 5 years and had just played SIU in a top-15 matchup for BracketBusters when they showed MVC interest.

Butler reached #8, #10, #11 in AP rankings the 3 years preceding their 2 CCG runs. Wins included Notre Dame, Indiana, Tennessee, Gonzaga, Purdue, Maryland, Michigan, Virginia Tech, Texas Tech, Ohio State, Xavier, & Northwestern.

Butler posted a 13-4 record against Gonzaga/Xavier/BCS teams the 3 years before the title runs.

Butler’s success wasn’t getting invites from feasting on a weak Horizon.

[E-Villan]

Butler had 2 S16’s in 5 years and had just played SIU in a top-15 matchup for BracketBusters when they showed MVC interest.

Butler reached #8, #10, #11 in AP rankings the 3 years preceding their 2 CCG runs. Wins included Notre Dame, Indiana, Tennessee, Gonzaga, Purdue, Maryland, Michigan, Virginia Tech, Texas Tech, Ohio State, Xavier, & Northwestern.

Butler posted a 13-4 record against Gonzaga/Xavier/BCS teams the 3 years before the title runs.

Butler’s success wasn’t getting invites from feasting on a weak Horizon.

Butler made their first NCAA appearance after a 35 year drought in 1997. They made 9 more between that and the 2010 tournament, which was their first trip past the Sweet 16. It was only after the second FF appearance that they got any invitations to leave the Horizon.

There is no question they made good with their invites..but they got all of those invites after 1997 by feasting on a weak conference. There is no way they would have won 9 MVC or A-10 titles between 1997 and 2010.

[RacerJoeD]

They won a ton of games OOC- would they have needed to win the MVC to get in?

[ptownbraves]

They won a ton of games OOC- would they have needed to win the MVC to get in?

No. After digging into the numbers, they were definitely good enough to be an at-large team and often were because of their great non-conference scheduling. They really played the system well and being in the MVC would not have hurt their tourney chances.

I wish more MVC teams would follow this mold but it's getting tougher to accomplish these days.

[E-Villan]

They won a ton of games OOC- would they have needed to win the MVC to get in?

No. After digging into the numbers, they were definitely good enough to be an at-large team and often were because of their great non-conference scheduling. They really played the system well and being in the MVC would not have hurt their tourney chances.

I wish more MVC teams would follow this mold but it's getting tougher to accomplish these days.

Early on they weren't good enough. 97 and 98 they won the conference tournament. 99-finished 2nd, no bid. 00-won the conference tournament. 01-won conference tournament. 02-1st in conference, lost conference tournament no bid. 03-lost in conference tournament, got 1st at-large bid.

Once they started making regular NCAA appearances, recruiting got easier, and scheduling got easier. After that point in 03, they may have established enough to keep the program going in a tougher league, but I see nothing between 97 and 02 that makes me think they would have been getting as many conference championships and bids from either the A-10 or MVC.

[ptownbraves]

They won a ton of games OOC- would they have needed to win the MVC to get in?

No. After digging into the numbers, they were definitely good enough to be an at-large team and often were because of their great non-conference scheduling. They really played the system well and being in the MVC would not have hurt their tourney chances.

I wish more MVC teams would follow this mold but it's getting tougher to accomplish these days.

Early on they weren't good enough. 97 and 98 they won the conference tournament. 99-finished 2nd, no bid. 00-won the conference tournament. 01-won conference tournament. 02-1st in conference, lost conference tournament no bid. 03-lost in conference tournament, got 1st at-large bid.

Once they started making regular NCAA appearances, recruiting got easier, and scheduling got easier. After that point in 03, they may have established enough to keep the program going in a tougher league, but I see nothing between 97 and 02 that makes me think they would have been getting as many conference championships and bids from either the A-10 or MVC.

I agree that in 97, 98 and 2000 they weren't at-large worthy. 2001 they may have had a chance to get an at-large bid. They won their conference tournament and were a #10 seed along with Creighton, Providence and Georgetown, all of whom received at-large bids. Two #11 seeds also received at-large bids that year.

I guess the larger point is 15 NCAA appearances since 1997 and a reasonable person can say that in only 3 or 4 of those years would they not have gotten an at-large bid due to dominating a weak conference (MCC) and getting the auto-bid. That's a pretty good track record.

[BearsCountry]

Kyle Moats, Missouri State's AD, tonight on Sports Talk in Springfield said MVC isn't actively looking at expansion at this time. League is happy at 10. If they expand it would be to 12 and no candidate is standing out at this time to make it feasible for expansion.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Kyle Moats, Missouri State's AD, tonight on Sports Talk in Springfield said MVC isn't actively looking at expansion at this time. League is happy at 10. If they expand it would be to 12 and no candidate is standing out at this time to make it feasible for expansion.

Hence our 17 KenPom rating and empty seat STL sea.

As with anything, you get out what you put in.