Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

[MOST]

A question below the surface on this thread: easy to ask difficult to answer. Just who are mid majors: schools/teams and who/what conferences? How far down the list of the 350 plus schools and 32 conferences are "Ps", from where to where on the lists are the mid majors, what are all the "others"? A harder question: what team(s) in a named conference are not "P", not "MM", maybe should not be D1 (conference or team)?

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

Cincinnati is from the AAC but they're not a mid-major. Same with Gonzaga. Also, P5 is football. P6 is basketball because the Big East is inarguably a power conference continually finishing in the top 3 conferences. Anyone who thought Villanova was a mid-major when they won it is either a casual fan or a straight moron.

[MOST]

Cincinnati is from the AAC but they're not a mid-major. Same with Gonzaga. Also, P5 is football. P6 is basketball because the Big East is inarguably a power conference continually finishing in the top 3 conferences. Anyone who thought Villanova was a mid-major when they won it is either a casual fan or a straight moron.

OK! But that is very short answer. Is Cincy the only "p" team outside the P5 (or P6). Not Houston? Not U Conn? Is the MVC and all its teams MMs? Where does the list of MMs top out (not MMs). Are there D1 teams that should revert back to D2; same question for lower D1 conferences.

[Rambler63]

Budgets. Take a look at the budgets if you can't figure who's major or mid-major. There are some pretty clear cut-off points.

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/6/ ... -mid-major

Approximately $5.9 million is the cutoff for a major vs. a mid-major.

[RacerJoeD]

A now-defunct website called midmajority had what they called “The Redline” that was the budgetary point above which was high major, below mid majors. This is similar to what those guys have done.

[MOST]

Budgets. Take a look at the budgets if you can't figure who's major or mid-major. There are some pretty clear cut-off points.

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/6/ ... -mid-major

Approximately $5.9 million is the cutoff for a major vs. a mid-major.

Thanks! Interesting data on MBB revenues and expenses. Need to do some serious pencil drills later.

Don't want to be too opinionated but I have not been enthralled with March Madness for a few years. P6++ and NCAA are monopolistic. Biggies getting bigger. Making money.

IMO too many schools/teams and too few classes. One class of D1 with 30+ conferences and 350 teams is ridiculous. The NCAA Tourney is a feel good exercise for teams from the bottom 16 conferences-means little as a nationally competitive tournament. Auto bids to 32 conference tournament champions is asinine. Too much from fans: "I want to see the upsets"---a 16 seed beat a 1 seed. Not an upset--a statistical aberration.

Said this before: why not two classes of D1 MBB. May even need three classes. We have two classes of D1 FB: FBS and FCS. Why not D1 and D1A MBB (or call it what you want). Two NCAA tourneys: 48 team D1 and 48 team D1A. That's 28 teams more than the current 68 team toourney.

Some schools need to revert to D2--thin the herd!

[racerlover]

Budgets. Take a look at the budgets if you can't figure who's major or mid-major. There are some pretty clear cut-off points.

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/6/ ... -mid-major

Approximately $5.9 million is the cutoff for a major vs. a mid-major.

Thanks! Interesting data on MBB revenues and expenses. Need to do some serious pencil drills later.

Don't want to be too opinionated but I have not been enthralled with March Madness for a few years. P6++ and NCAA are monopolistic. Biggies getting bigger. Making money.

IMO too many schools/teams and too few classes. One class of D1 with 30+ conferences and 350 teams is ridiculous. The NCAA Tourney is a feel good exercise for teams from the bottom 16 conferences-means little as a nationally competitive tournament. Auto bids to 32 conference tournament champions is asinine. Too much from fans: "I want to see the upsets"---a 16 seed beat a 1 seed. Not an upset--a statistical aberration.

Said this before: why not two classes of D1 MBB. May even need three classes. We have two classes of D1 FB: FBS and FCS. Why not D1 and D1A MBB (or call it what you want). Two NCAA tourneys: 48 team D1 and 48 team D1A. That's 28 teams more than the current 68 team toourney.

Some schools need to revert to D2--thin the herd!

This is the worst idea I've read in a while. So we should have IAA basketball? And how many people will watch the second tier tournament? Probably the same number that currently watch FCS football, which is little to none. Should we give a license to the giant schools to print money, while our schools end up having to play money games to pay for the season? To hell with that!!! BTW, the OVC is one of those bottom 16 conferences and I think Murray and Belmont did a little more than have a "feel good exercise". Also, if it were up to the power schools/conferences, the MVC would fall into the same category as the OVC and MEAC. And there are plenty of Duke, UNC, UK, etc fans out there that look at all of our schools on the same level. Like lowly pieces of s--t. Sorry, but going IAA in basketball is ridiculous and I quite enjoy watching our schools beat the hell out of those schools that think they are holier than thou.

[MOST]

SO! Murray State won the OVC and got the auto bid. Belmont won the regular season and got a NCAA gift at large. Two teams from the number 20 ranked conference. How come??? Why not 2 from the MVC, CAA, Southern, HL, or any other "mid major". 2 big dogs in a small pen. Proves nothing! One would have got there (NCAA) regardless.

Still no answer to why we should not have 2 classes of D1 MBB---again we do that for D1 FB. A rlook at the revenue/expense data further justifies 2 classes of MBB---and even the reversion of some teams/conferences to D2.

[VUGrad1314]

The SOCON got screwed. There's a decent argument to be made that they should have been a three bid league. You're making the anti-expansion case for them: We don't have our own Murray State\Belmont level program yet and so we won't get respect until we do. Still, nonconference drives the bus. Belmont got in because they beat UCLA and went 3-1 against Lipscomb and Murray State (both top 50 programs). That's why. No MVC team had that kind of resume, though I do think this would have been a huge help to the 15-16 Valpos the 16-17 Illinois States and the 17-18 Loyolas of the world. I doubt they would have had to win their tournament to get in (maybe Valpo still because their conference had so many bottom feeders that year). We just need 1-2 teams to run way out ahead of the pack and for the conference to show up OOC. I do think adding high quality programs like Murray State and Belmont (I think they'll survive especially if Alexander is their next hire) can help us get there, but these definitely are the most important factors. The cream needs to rise but the entire conference needs to stay strong and get some good wins early. Adding more quality teams only helps the conference stay strong and provides more potential resume builders in conference.

As for classes in basketball it would be bad for us because we wouldn't get any of the big tournament money at all, forcing us to take more buy games. The fact that there's no money in it for mid majors is precisely why it's probably going to end up happening one day anyway. At least we'll get to compete for national championships? But we already do that NOW.

[racerlover]

Let me ask this...since you're using FCS football as an example, tell me how much of a chance Murray would have against Notre Dame in football? Now, tell me how much of a chance Murray would have against Notre Dame in basketball? How much money does the NCAA basketball tournament pay schools/conferences vs how much the FCS playoffs pay? You really want to erase history by doing what football has accomplished? You know what? SEMO made the Division II final four three times. Guess how many people cared or even know that? IAA basketball will create the following:

Less revenue
Lesser talent
Less games on TV
Less attendance
Less booster support
No chance to beat power schools

Sorry, but I'll take making the round of 32 and done vs winning a meaningless IAA basketball title.