Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

[Sir Sci]

It should have never been EITHER Valpo or Murray, it should have been BOTH. This insistence on an even number of schools is nonsense and really hard for some of us to accept.

(Personally, without a shred if evidence, I still suspect there is some other reason to keep Murray out. I have no idea what it could be -- maybe that Murray isn't "big" enough -- but I've always believed that the Lords if the MVC considered Murray "No. 12 " and not No. 11.)

(Also, this subject has been more than beaten to death, but at this point I just want to see this thread reach 100 pages, just to see if it can.)

I, too, would love to see this thread reach 100 pages.

But on the topic, I can't see it being that Murray St is too small. Sure, they're smaller than every other public school in the MVC, but they're also larger than every private excepting Loyola.

[Mikovio]

US News and World Report disagrees. For 26 straight years, Murray has been ranked as one of the top regional universities in the South overall, and even higher in the public school division. Also has been listed in Forbes' list of America's Top Colleges.

Murray State is ranked #34 among "Regional Universities South (tie)"

Rankings of other Valley regional schools:

Drake #3 in Regional Universities Midwest
Valpo #5 in Regional Universities Midwest
Bradley #6 in Regional Universities Midwest
Evansville #7 in Regional Universities Midwest
UNI #25 in Regional Universities Midwest (tie)
MSU #111 in Regional Universities Midwest (tie) (yikes)

Granted it's a different region but Murray would be near the bottom.

[RacerJoeD]

As a Regional Public university, its a bit misleading. Private schools generally have better academics because of their ability to deny entrance. Whats more, being a regional university in comparison to lower ranked national universities mean that the comparison is difficult to make.

Indiana State - #230-301 National universities
Illinois State - #171
SIU - #226

Please notice, Im not saying that any of these schools or any school in the MVC has "poor academics" as that is rude, misleading, and frankly, untrue. I believe that Murray State would be near the middle for public universities in the MVC.

[Sir Sci]

US News and World Report disagrees. For 26 straight years, Murray has been ranked as one of the top regional universities in the South overall, and even higher in the public school division. Also has been listed in Forbes' list of America's Top Colleges.

Murray State is ranked #34 among "Regional Universities South (tie)"

Rankings of other Valley regional schools:

Drake #3 in Regional Universities Midwest
Valpo #5 in Regional Universities Midwest
Bradley #6 in Regional Universities Midwest
Evansville #7 in Regional Universities Midwest
UNI #25 in Regional Universities Midwest (tie)
MSU #111 in Regional Universities Midwest (tie) (yikes)

Granted it's a different region but Murray would be near the bottom.

Just to comment, I agree that Missouri State's ranking deserves the elicited "yikes." But I have something to say about that, because I really wish that MO State did rank higher.

Missouri State's entire strategy right now in how to grow as an institution and grows its brand/footprint in the state is to offer a large public college feeling while doing so at as low of tuition as possible. As a part of that, Missouri State is not exactly what you would consider a selective university right now (although average entering ACT scores are above the state average). Missouri State is recruiting and accepting as many students as it possibly can within reason. And the thing is, it's working! MSU is growing, and growing rapidly.

But the trade off for that rapid growth is that we're attracting a lot of students whose academic profile is a little bit lower. That statement isn't meant to denigrate those students, but it's simply a fact. Yes, there are admissions standards as there should be, but they are constructed in a way that makes it really hard to not get in to Missouri State (at least, that's my perspective). Considering selectivity is a component of academic rankings, that in of itself plays a role. But even further, because of the academic profiles of a lot of students may not be the best, that also results in quite a few students rotating out of Missouri State or taking longer than four years to complete their degree. Those factors also play a part in rankings, as student retention and four-year graduation rates are a part of the formula used by US News.

So this is my contention: the actual education offered at Missouri State is high quality. The professors are great, the institution offers top notch student services, the degrees are valuable, and I've personally found in my professional career that Missouri State grads fill important positions throughout the state (and I've lived in St. Louis and Columbia post graduation, not Springfield). But Missouri State is focused on pure growth right now, that is detrimental to its academic rankings. Maybe someday MSU will get to a size that it feels should be sustained and change strategies, but at the moment, we're trying to become a large public institution - and we're succeeding.

[mvfcfan]

[quote="valleydays"] I've always believed that the Lords if the MVC considered Murray "No. 12 " and not No. 11.[quote]

I personally believe that Belmont was #10. When they didn't accept Valpo took that spot. Had Belmont accepted I 100% believe that Murray State would be in the MVC today and that the MVC would be a 12 team league. I also believe that most of the MVC schools want to keep a balance of half public and half private going forward.

The "11" excuse is just that, an excuse. We all know that the MWC, Big Sky, and MAAC are doing fine with 11 teams. I also noticed that the Southland has 13. 11 is not that crazy of an idea.

I also believe that the 1% chance of Belmont ever wanting to join the MVC went to 0% after getting an at-large. They are directly in the center of the OVC and travel is super cheap for them. There is no reason for them to join. Personally I don't think Murray State should join either. I think there are more disadvantages for them joining than advantages.

[BearsCountry]

Losing Wichita State and Creighton hurt more than just basketball. They had outstanding all-sports programs. Their replacements not so much. Wichita State was very good in volleyball, women's hoops, baseball, softball, etc. Creighton the same. We expand, we better find some schools that can be good across the board in multiple sports.

[RacerJoeD]

https://nacda.com/documents/2019/4/9//A ... df?id=3574

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACDA_Directors%27_Cup

Not for nothing, but Murray State is 15 spots higher that the highest MVC team

[Mikovio]

I'm not saying it to be a jerk, but academic rankings will be considered in an expansion decision to be made by university presidents. Valpo and Belmont are ranked substantially higher and I don't think it's a coincidence that they were targeted before Murray. Whether they should be is another question. The ACC added Louisville and the B1G added Nebraska in spite of their academics.

Mens basketball powers the engine and pays the bills so that should be the main focus.

[IllinoisState]

I'm not saying it to be a jerk, but academic rankings will be considered in an expansion decision to be made by university presidents. Valpo and Belmont are ranked substantially higher and I don't think it's a coincidence that they were targeted before Murray. Whether they should be is another question. The ACC added Louisville and the B1G added Nebraska in spite of their academics.

Mens basketball powers the engine and pays the bills so that should be the main focus.

Losing Creighton and Wichita State certainly made us worse in basketball, but much better academically with Loyola and Valpo. In that regard they were both great additions.

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

Nku loses coach to Cincy.