REPORT: Murray to the Valley?

[All-MVC Fan]

Not adding Murray State would be a mistake of gargantuan proportions. Markets are great, but if the basketball is crap, it will be a net loser.

But university presidents are generally morons of the first order. So nothing will surprise me.

There's a football aspect to adding Murray State as well

I fail to see a problem, short of a problem invented in the minds of men. That would be a ridiculous reason to keep them out.

[VUGrad1314]

What I am about to post is conjecture based on possible causes. We do not know why or if Murray State doesn't have the votes and we never will. It is also probably highly controversial especially since I am a fan of a private school team. Some of you will probably be upset by this but I feel it needs to be said.

If it's true that Murray State doesn't have the votes then it's very possible the private schools are holding up the inclusion of Murray State. The academic argument is bunk though. Murray State isn't some JuCo CC or Diploma mill. It's not like we're adding Grand Canyon Liberty or even Oral Roberts here. We're adding a school that is fine for what it is: a smallish regional school in a fairly low population area. As the D1360 video points out these markets and gaudy academic reputations that the University Presidents seem to hellbent on going after are doing nothing to forestall serious declines of enrollment in the past decade. By contrast, Murray State has been relatively insulated from this trend experiencing only a 9% drop relative to 17% at Milwaukee 18% at NKU 37% at Little Rock and 40% at Wright State. Also, the attendance numbers at many of the schools mentioned in the video (Wright State NKU and of course Murray State excluded) are horrible. Even Belmont with no discernible online fanbase outdraws them. These are clearly the schools we need to be adding. Totally. Markets do not matter for a conference when nobody cares about the team in that market. We saw this firsthand in the Horizon League ourselves. Big empty gyms in cities that could not possibly care less about the team or the game going on because they have so much else to focus on. The league couldn't even make a neutral site tournament work despite having two schools in or near the host city. And yet we want to pull big market schools from this league? Really? For what? A handful of extra students. That doesn't seem worth tanking the metrics and athletic profile of your league for but I'm not a University President so what do I know? For reference, Valpo recruits Wisconsin for students and athletes just fine even without a presence in the footprint in the conference.

It seems possible that like the Big East of old the privates and publics in this conference are nearing a schism point and may not be able to coexist much longer. This conference has done a lot to cater to the Private schools including giving them the last four additions to the conference even replacing Wichita State with Valpo and a current 6-5 majority. While I am grateful for this, and that this conference is not only the best athletic conference we've ever been in but also the most institutionally friendly as we've never been with so many institutional peers before, it is unfair and unreasonable in my mind to demand an even split, have your every whim catered to when it comes to the additions being made on your side, have the publics acquiesce to giving you an even split instead of adding a school with a comparable or better basketball profile and superior facilities (Sorry it's just true) and then try to exercise too much sway over which school the publics pick to even things back up when you have the majority. if I were a public school in favor of adding Murray State I would be massively pissed off right now at whoever is holding this up because of this.

Murray State would do so much for the athletic profile of the league. None of our schools are Ivy League institutions so we really need to get over ourselves. If I were a public school with any reasonable shot at making a go of it I would get those FBS feasibility studies ready unless the Private Schools (if they really are the holdup here) change their mind. If it's SIU, they really need to consider doing what's best for the league over what may be best for themselves. Adding Murray State isn't going to end the enrollment decline in Carbondale. It may accelerate it slightly but it's not going to be the reason for SIU's woes. The rivalry might actually help stoke more interest in the school and the program at large as well. Remember that as small compared to other options as the area added by Murray State is it does add Kentucky to the footprint.

I don't believe that football is a valid reason for holding this up either. The fears of the MVC teams splitting off from the Summit teams and Youngstown State are unfounded. The MVFC partnership with the Summit League schools is working too well for all concerned. If they're the problem, then boot them. If that is what is holding this up, tell the Summit League schools they can have whoever they want as the 12th team without objection. If WIU leaves too give them the next two picks if you have to. Just get this done. It's the right call for all concerned if we have the long-term future of the league in mind. I've said it before and I'll say it again, FCS football should not be holding up the progress of a basketball-centric league.

I can't believe what should be a simple straightforward slam dunk of a move that ensures the conference's competitiveness well into the future is so contentious that it may well cause a rift that may not be able to be mended. If true, that will be a sad day for the MVC and if it does split it will likely never again reach the glory and status it formerly and presently enjoys. I want us to stay together. We are stronger together. But if institutional squabbling is what's holding this move up then I wouldn't fault any team for deciding to seek its fortunes elsewhere. Maybe that's what the Missouri State feasibility study is really about. They knew Belmont was coming they wanted Murray State and got told no so they thought "Well let's see if we can go somewhere else then." I don't know that it's true but it's certainly possible and if that is in fact the case I don't blame them one iota.

[Murraygrad05]

I had many friends that live an hour away or less from the Murray campus go to school outside of this region. Was it because of sports? Absolutely not. It was about their study and the program of that institution. Not because the basketball team went to the NCAA the year before.

I think the author of that put it very nicely on how in today’s world, a tv market is not worth what it was even 10 years ago. It’s all cord cutted now and streaming. Same as recruiting for instructions. A prospective student can go online from anywhere in the world and get detailed information about a specific program. Recruiting has totally changed from what it used to be. Schools don’t have to search for students now as much as they can find them on the web.

On VU’s comment about holding the conference tourney in a metropolitan site with no fan fare, go find a video on youtube of when the OVC tourney was in Nashville and see the crowd of Belmont in the finals. It’s just not there. And honestly in Murray, for the population that it is, the town revolves around the school and we are a bit prideful of our institution. Us averaging nearly 5,000 and I’ll even go on record and say it will be more when we can schedule a more competitive home schedule and not the NAIA schools or sub 300 OVC basement dwellers shows what we could bring.

Not adding Murray… sigh again… would be the biggest boot to the butt especially when we’ve done everything we can. I don’t believe we’ll be in the OVC long due to the facility upgrades planned. That would be a massive waste just to stay in a conference that a team 50 miles from you sells drinks out of two liter bottles and has their annual car show the same night usually (UT Martin). Just where we end up in the end is what I’m worried about.

[E-Villan]

You mean like how Valpo is adjacent to Gary, Indiana? Valparaiso is hardly anything special either. I've been to Paducah and it's around the same size as Peoria.

Paducah is nowhere near the size as Peoria. Peoria is similar in size to Evansville and Springfield.

I am a big supporter of Murray in the MVC. With that said, you can't deny market concerns. I used to buy television advertising for company branches throughout Indiana and Illinois. That lofty ranking for the Paducah-Cape media market is misleading. That market was created back in the days of analog. No one city was large enough for multiple stations, so one ended up in Cape, one in Paducah, and one in Harrisburg, IL. A triangle of 60+miles between them. They cover a lot of geography, but the population is very fragmented between 4 states. Folks in Union City, TN don't care about SIU or even Murray. Same in Southern Illinois about Kentucky. Not to mention we already have a school in this media market. The nice young sales rep for Channel 12 would always jump on the Top 100 market stuff to open her pitch, but our advertising response target was usually no more than 40-50 miles from an office. We got much better results in Peoria, Evansville and even Terre Haute, where there is so much more population centered around the core of the market. That spread out market only matters if your pushing a national product like Coca-Cola.

Paducah’s TV market is ahead of Evansville in the link I posted, if you’re interested in facts.

Apparently you didn't read or comprehend any of my post regarding your so-called Paducah media market. I'm on your side on this to get in, but arguing Paducah brings a media market or population to the table is not the argument you need or want.

Paducah has a population of 24K, and a micro-population of 97K. Paducah has exactly 1 network affiliate, NBC. The next closest one is the CBS affiliate in Cape Girardeau, 60+ miles away. Cape is also home to another D-1 program., and it is in Missouri. You and I both know no one in Farmington, MO is going to give a rats rear about Murray State, just like no one in Paris, TN cares about SIU or SEMO.

For comparison, both Peoria and Evansville have all the network affiliates based in their city, as well as independents. Peoria has 114K in the city proper and 373K MSA, Evansville has 118K in city proper and 358K in MSA. Like I said, I have bought a lot of airtime in all of those markets. Paducah-Cape-Harrisburg-Poplar Bluff is very fragmented. Those rivers might as well be the English Channel as far as fan interests.

Murray has a ton of positives, and should be in the conference. If markets really matter, we just have to admit that could be the one weakness. A writer at the Paducah Sun-Democrat, or getting a highlight on WPSD isn't going to change that.

[goramblers2011]

Also, this video has so much info on it. The one to look at is the slide talking about the media packages and the ratings of nationally televised games. Eye opening considering the streaming numbers that Matt Brown puts out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3en4npeWKZ4

This was a great video. I haven't seen this guy's work before, but he does a great job presenting a ton of data efficiently and in an easy-to-digest visual format. Should be working in the MVC offices!

[smidge34]

Apparently you have no idea what a media market is. Paducah area market is larger than Evansville’s and that’s that. No Evansville isn’t trying to get an invite, that’s not my point. My point is bringing up our market is dumb. Murray State immediately brings to the table one of the greatest traditions in mid major basketball and that is not open for debate. Sounds like somebody somewhere is worried about rain on their parade with the excuses.

[Barkeep1967]

Not adding Murray State would be a mistake of gargantuan proportions. Markets are great, but if the basketball is crap, it will be a net loser.

But university presidents are generally morons of the first order. So nothing will surprise me.

There's a football aspect to adding Murray State as well

I fail to see a problem, short of a problem invented in the minds of men. That would be a ridiculous reason to keep them out.

I can 100% see why the MVCFC would not accept Murray.

If Murray is saying it is both or nothing then it is on them

[RacerJoeD]

Also, this video has so much info on it. The one to look at is the slide talking about the media packages and the ratings of nationally televised games. Eye opening considering the streaming numbers that Matt Brown puts out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3en4npeWKZ4

This was a great video. I haven't seen this guy's work before, but he does a great job presenting a ton of data efficiently and in an easy-to-digest visual format. Should be working in the MVC offices!

It really is like drinking from a fire hose. I had to pause the video a dozen times. Good stuff. Tons of data.

[All-MVC Fan]

I can 100% see why the MVCFC would not accept Murray.

If Murray is saying it is both or nothing then it is on them

Alright, why would the MVFC not accept Murray?

[VUGrad1314]

I can 100% see why the MVCFC would not accept Murray.

If Murray is saying it is both or nothing then it is on them

Alright, why would the MVFC not accept Murray?

Probably because they don't think they'll be good enough and might drag down the league or something. Which is a stupid argument because it's FCS football and nobody outside of the fans of the schools that play it cares anyway; but besides that, as long as the conference still has NDSU SDSU UNI etc. It's still going to be fine and get 3-4 bids every year with or without Murray State especially with the emergence of Missouri State as a player in the conference under Petrino. I really don't understand the resistance. Yet another area where people need to get over themselves.