Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

[VUGrad1314]

The problem with completely disregarding what is best for MVFC is that, despite it officially being separate entity, the football-playing MVC schools have voting power. UNI, SIU, ISU (red), ISU (blue) and MSU are 5/10 votes on any league matter.

As silly as it may seem to undercut a good basketball addition, the football politics always factor in.

Football drives college athletics, even at the FCS level. Basketball is just along for the ride.

You sure about that? I thought FCS football almost universally loses money outside of maybe top of the top schools like NDSU while basketball actually makes money for the MVC. Is it possible that I'm totally wrong in this belief? Also aren't most of the MVC publics on board with Murray State as an addition? I remember hearing Missouri State was solidly in their corner before and I have to assume Northern Iowa would be because of basketball prowess. Illinois State and Indiana State I would guess are either indifferent or supportive (probably the latter though it seems less clear than the former two). The only one I feel like might be concerning is SIU because they are in the same market. But judging from the fans here it would seem like that won't be a problem.

It matters to the Dakota schools in the MVFC that value football over basketball. I'm guessing they're not cool with adding a bottom-feeder that doesn't benefit them at all.

Then we need to do what is right for our institutions\athletic departments as a whole and let the Dakotas figure it out for themselves. Again the MVC teams gave them UND when they didn't have to and it didn't really benefit them. If they can't respond in kind then maybe the partnership needs to dissolve.

[TylerDurden]

The problem with completely disregarding what is best for MVFC is that, despite it officially being separate entity, the football-playing MVC schools have voting power. UNI, SIU, ISU (red), ISU (blue) and MSU are 5/10 votes on any league matter.

As silly as it may seem to undercut a good basketball addition, the football politics always factor in.

Football drives college athletics, even at the FCS level. Basketball is just along for the ride.

You sure about that? I thought FCS football almost universally loses money outside of maybe top of the top schools like NDSU while basketball actually makes money for the MVC. Is it possible that I'm totally wrong in this belief? Also aren't most of the MVC publics on board with Murray State as an addition? I remember hearing Missouri State was solidly in their corner before and I have to assume Northern Iowa would be because of basketball prowess. Illinois State and Indiana State I would guess are either indifferent or supportive (probably the latter though it seems less clear than the former two). The only one I feel like might be concerning is SIU because they are in the same market. But judging from the fans here it would seem like that won't be a problem.

I'm 100 percent sure about that.

It's not as simple as looking at the balance sheet and claiming profits and losses.

I don't know what position each school would take on Murray St., but I assure you those with football care very much and would torpedo a vote if they felt like it wasn't in the best interest of their football team. It wouldn't take all 5 to stop an addition.

Again, I don't know each school's position, but the football schools are in the driver's seat here. They may very well be on board, but it's likely not as clear cut as it seemingly should be from a basketball perspective.

[VUGrad1314]

I'm skeptical that playing just one not so great team would have such a massive impact on bids within the MVFC but maybe it will. I guess it would make some sense given the relative paucity of games in football relative to other sports. I get why the football schools care I just don't think they should for the reasons I've stated previously. We aren't a football league and Murray State isn't a football school so making a decision based on football when their inclusion benefits the department as a whole but especially basketball which is so important to this conference seems misguided to me. But I never saw the value of FCS football because I didn't go to a football school. Maybe if I did I would feel differently but pragmatically it just seems like sacrificing football a bit for the greater good of the department would make sense. My point still stands though the MVC schools gave them North Dakota which isn't a very good program so I feel like the Summit League schools should be willing to allow Murray State as a showing of good will\good faith to the MVC schools for being so accommodating to their needs and wishes. But I do recognize that I am falling into two traps: 1. That any decision in athletics would ever be made based on fairness and 2. That my needs and desires (as a basketball first fan from a basketball first school) should take precedence over those of a football first school. Even if I'm right and it makes all the pragmatic sense in the world it doesn't matter because sometimes realignment decisons aren't pragmatic. There's a lot of ego and emotion involved and schools with different priorities that don't always match up too well. It sucks because it's holding the league back and I feel like Murray State does not deserve to be left out in the cold like this but that's the reality we face. It's just so annoying.

[Herd]

The dakota 4 schools are basketball and football first schools. Basketball is damn important, especially to the xdsu’s. The suggestion that we don’t have a full basketball commitment, by a Valpo fan, is laughable.

Murray on the other hand, can’t say that they are committed to basketball and football, neither can Valpo obviously. The fact that you’d rather travel to KY and TN than Sioux Falls and Fargo is your decision, but it has nothing to do with commitment, fanbases, quality athletics. It’s simply shows your lack of knowledge.

[goyotes]

FWIW, the below quote is from Dom Izzo, who is the NDSU TV PXP guy, on the Bison Live Chat last night. https://www.inforum.com/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/football/7237320-LIVE-BLOG-Join-the-Sunday-Night-Bison-Live-Chat-with-the-InForum-sports-team-starting-at-9-p.m.

"Got an update on Murray State yesterday and the Mo Valley. A home for football is what is holding things up. Close to a done deal to add for Mo Valley basketball. But several hurdles on adding them for football."

[Herd]

Maybe UNI, IL State and Missouri State don’t want them in the Mvfc, who knows.

[VUGrad1314]

Maybe UNI, IL State and Missouri State don’t want them in the Mvfc, who knows.

So those schools would take them in all other sports but don't want to play them in football? That seems unlikely.

Maybe I was a bit harsh about commitment--and your point about Valpo's dubious commitment is well-taken. The new administration has said they want to start working on funding a renovated or new facility starting with a new funding drive next year but we have heard that before. We'll have to see what happens.-- I was just concerned that their budgets would be at or near the bottom of the current MVC and they (and all MVC members) would have to travel much more in order to compete together. On the merits of what their programs have achieved I would say that NDSU and SDSU are worthy of consideration but is the money there for them to deal with the travel increase? Would they be willing to leave UND and USD behind as would likely be necessary? Do they want to give up their influence over their current conference and having the tournament in their own backyard? Are they willing to accept a lower percentage chance at making the tournament for a higher percentage chance of advancing through better seeding if they do? And would the private schools be willing to allow multiple football playing public schools without corresponding private school additions? I am skeptical. I do think NDSU and SDSU have the potential to make the league better but I haven't seen that potential realized to the degree that I would look for in an expansion candidate (even though SDSU's women's basketball program is as good as it gets and would be an absolutely amazing addition) and the potential of NDSU and SDSU hasn't been realized to the degree that Murray State and Belmont have realized theirs. That is why they are ahead of NDSU and SDSU in the realignment pecking order.

[BCPanther]

If that's the decision...

Just figure out how to help Murray schedule as an FCS independent for a two years and then let them join in 2024. It's not like the remaining OVC teams are going to want to lose that game on their schedules either since it's so hard to get games.

Dixie State and Tarleton are wide open too. The CAA is going to have some space because James Madison's CUSA invite is surely coming in the next few days. It might be a pain in the ass but I think it can be done in combination with what Murray already has on the books.

[mvfcfan]

Maybe a stupid question, but why can't they just remake the football schedules for the MVFC to fit Murray State into the schedule?

[IllinoisState]

Maybe a stupid question, but why can't they just remake the football schedules for the MVFC to fit Murray State into the schedule?

It's not a stupid question. If the MVFC is really holding them back because of that then they are the stupid ones.