Loyola Leaving for A-10

[BCPanther]

I don't love the Kansas City add but there are tons of UNI, Drake and Missouri State Alumni there. I understand why presidents would want to be there.

If anybody could find another Belmont or two, that'd be great....

[VUGrad1314]

This argument that "Well, Loyola worked out wonderfully so let's just try that again because it just might work" argument is ridiculous. We are so very fortunate as a league that Loyola worked out the way they did but it doesn't mean that any big market team we add is going to be another Loyola and if they aren't then we're stuck with a huge anchor dragging down the league--worse yet, it's an anchor on a geographic island that we all have to fly to instead of one we can easily bus to in our footprint. I know Valpo has sucked and not performed as expected so I shouldn't be throwing stones and complaining about adding anchors while we've been nothing but an anchor weighing down the conference so far but there's a difference between rolling the dice on a team that has shown a pulse before and might well be good again (Loyola Valpo Milwaukee) and hoping we can make magic happen with a team that has done nothing for its entire history like Arlington or Kansas City. The former have shown that they're the right coach away from doing amazing things the latter have shown literally nothing to suggest they could do anything. Money and market isn't everything. As I recall Bradley spends more money than any school outside of Loyola in this conference and they haven't won a tournament game since like 2006 or 2007. CUSA went after a bunch of market schools and it almost destroyed their league (the AAC has followed suit on the same mistake) The Horizon League has presence in so many markets but hasn't had an at large nor have they won a tournament game since Butler left. Unfortunately, many HL teams are among the best possible candidates for us to move forward but we need to be smart about who we add. Northern Kentucky is a terrific compromise between those of us who want to see good winning programs and those who want markets. And if we're going to roll the dice on a program hoping they'll be good I'd much rather it be a program like Milwaukee who has at least shown that they can do it before instead of a complete unknown like Arlington. UIC's overall institutional profile is too good to ignore and adding a Chicago presence again would be important to student recruitment for so many MVC schools plus we can simply bus to them. They are a better add than Arlington (who has a similar academic profile albeit not as good) for this reason alone. Unless we're talking about adding a no brainer program like New Mexico State (not happening) let's try to stay geographically sensible here. I'm not against adding markets full stop we just have to be smart about which market teams we add. Just because Loyola worked doesn't mean they all will and that kind of thinking is the first and surest step towards cratering this league into permanent one bid status.

[SalukiWorld]

I don't love the Kansas City add but there are tons of UNI, Drake and Missouri State Alumni there. I understand why presidents would want to be there.

If anybody could find another Belmont or two, that'd be great....

I don't get why we aren't looking more at UIC then. Loyola is a huge loss for alumni of UNI, ISU, Bradey, SIU in Chicago that could easily travel to a game.

[BCPanther]

I don't love the Kansas City add but there are tons of UNI, Drake and Missouri State Alumni there. I understand why presidents would want to be there.

If anybody could find another Belmont or two, that'd be great....

I don't get why we aren't looking more at UIC then. Loyola is a huge loss for alumni of UNI, ISU, Bradey, SIU in Chicago that could easily travel to a game.

Matt Brown implied that the league went into this round of expansion and these three teams thinking that Loyola was sticking around (apparently they were looking at the AAC in the summer) and the plan was 14. So maybe UIC is the next step after due diligence on them?

[SalukiWorld]

I don't love the Kansas City add but there are tons of UNI, Drake and Missouri State Alumni there. I understand why presidents would want to be there.

If anybody could find another Belmont or two, that'd be great....

I don't get why we aren't looking more at UIC then. Loyola is a huge loss for alumni of UNI, ISU, Bradey, SIU in Chicago that could easily travel to a game.

Matt Brown implied that the league went into this round of expansion and these three teams thinking that Loyola was sticking around (apparently they were looking at the AAC in the summer) and the plan was 14. So maybe UIC is the next step after due diligence on them?

Yeah, I haven't had UIC on my radar personally but that was because it was never happening as long as Loyola was here. Now that they're gone I think UIC would be a good addition. I don't think we'll get Loyola success out of them but I think it's a better potential add than a UMKC or UT Arlington based on location.

[VUGrad1314]

I don't love the Kansas City add but there are tons of UNI, Drake and Missouri State Alumni there. I understand why presidents would want to be there.

If anybody could find another Belmont or two, that'd be great....

I don't get why we aren't looking more at UIC then. Loyola is a huge loss for alumni of UNI, ISU, Bradey, SIU in Chicago that could easily travel to a game.

Matt Brown implied that the league went into this round of expansion and these three teams thinking that Loyola was sticking around (apparently they were looking at the AAC in the summer) and the plan was 14. So maybe UIC is the next step after due diligence on them?

Like I said I really hope Loyola's departure recalibrates the presidents' thinking in a more athletics-centric direction and that we end up with (if we are adding three) Murray State NKU and UIC. I would take these two over either KC or Arlington.

Murray State replaces Loyola's basketball prowess somewhat

NKU can be a nice Q2 level road game similar to what Missouri State is (assuming we lose them I consider them a huge flight risk at this point and I think the Norse could bring similar or better results in basketball at least.

UIC to replace Loyola's Chicago presence. Athletically I would advocate for Wright State they are to the Horizon League what Missouri State and UNI are to the MVC in that they are good at everything but there has been nothing to suggest that their financial troubles are over so I would put them on hold for now. UIC offers similar potential and keeps us in Chicago which is important.

One thing's for sure: I do not want to dilute the league by adding schools like KC and Arlington just to cling to faint hope that Missouri State stays around. They want FBS and feel like the Valley no longer fits their institutional vision. So be it. Let them go and don't worry about replacing that portion of the footprint until KC and\or Arlington actually do something to merit consideration other than having built their campus in a big city. MVC schools will do much better recruiting students from places like Chicago or Milwaukee than they will from Dallas\Arlington or KC (outside of the Iowa schools who would probably also do well in Wisconsin).

If we wanted to throw the Iowa schools a bone why not St Thomas. They recruit Minneapolis well and the Tommies have much more promise athletically than either KC or Arlington. Or South Dakota State (which I'm sure Drake and UNI draw students from) it probably doesn't help the rest of the MVC that much in student recruiting but the Jackrabbits are really really good athletically and they are a state flagship. Women's basketball with Belmont and SDSU in the fold would go form good to amazing and men's basketball with the Jackrabbits added has good potential to remain solid.

[BCPanther]

I think we, focused exclusively on athletics, lose the point of how hard it's going to be for smaller universities in the Midwest to thrive going forward and that has to be at the forefront for the presidents, especially of the privates.

The population around us is getting older, the number of high school graduates is dropping and all of these institutions have to make sure they stay solvent. Picking off a few kids from Dallas and a few kids from Nashville and a few more from Kansas City can make a huge difference and it doesn't take many of them to make a difference.

One of our former presidents always said 'athletics and performing arts are the front porch of the university'. It's where people come and hopefully have a good enough time that they are curious enough to want to go look around inside the house next time.

[RacerJoeD]

Norlander's podcast seems to indicate that UMKC would have to start their updates in earnest before they would be considered. I would recommend giving it a listen

[VUGrad1314]

I think we, focused exclusively on athletics, lose the point of how hard it's going to be for smaller universities in the Midwest to thrive going forward and that has to be at the forefront for the presidents, especially of the privates.

The population around us is getting older, the number of high school graduates is dropping and all of these institutions have to make sure they stay solvent. Picking off a few kids from Dallas and a few kids from Nashville and a few more from Kansas City can make a huge difference and it doesn't take many of them to make a difference.

One of our former presidents always said 'athletics and performing arts are the front porch of the university'. It's where people come and hopefully have a good enough time that they are curious enough to want to go look around inside the house next time.

That's all well and good I just think we'll do a better job of that if we added schools like UIC Milwaukee NKU St Thomas and Bellarmine: these are markets where most (if not all) MVC institutions could expect to have a fighting chance. Like it or not, most of our schools' reach is and will always be regional in nature and most kids want to go to school far enough away from home that they aren't under their parents' thumb but not so far away that they're in a completely different area of the country. I would venture to say that many more kids in Chicago Milwaukee Detroit Cincinnati Louisville and Minneapolis know how good Drake Bradley Valpo UNI Evansville and such are as schools and would be more apt to come here than kids from Texas and western Missouri. We wouldn't get more than a negligible handful from those areas. In places like Chicago and Milwaukee especially MVC schools could hope to give themselves a fighting chance to boost enrollment. Those are the schools I would be targeting if we're all about markets here.

As for the front porch argument I agree wholeheartedly and right now we just had a porch pirate steal our best package. It would be helpful if we could add some more nice packages (albeit not as nice as Loyola) like Murray State and NKU to keep Valley athletics competitive. Our pool of additions should be as follows:

If we want to get better athletically we should pick from: Murray State NKU Wright State and perhaps St Thomas Bellarmine Maybe Cleveland State or Oakland as well

If we want student recruitment adds we should pick from UIC Milwaukee UDM or even some of the schools I mentioned in the athletics portion but UIC and Milwaukee are by far and away the most potentially fruitful additions we could make if we want markets we could reliably tap into for students without busting our travel budgets and making it so we spend a good portion of the enrollment money we get from students from the far away places like Arlington traveling to play them. I wouldn't even so much look in KC and Arlington's direction unless I see firm commitments to athletics and a firm promise that Missouri State is staying. Otherwise I'd rather further regionalize the conference because that's where our students are going to come from like it or not. Even if you could guarantee me the former (Arlington and KC commitment to athletics) there's no way you could guarantee me the latter (Missouri State staying. Without Missouri State I'm just not that interested in having schools that far away when we could accomplish the same goals better with more geographically sensible additions.

[Kyle_Saluki_17]

It would seem that both Kansas City and UT Arlington would need to commit money into their programs to be able to join. I don't know what is standard for these types of moves, but I hope that we require both of them to spend above the median MVC budget, whatever that number is, to build their program to make sure that they are at least serious about basketball. Granted, money doesn't always equal results, but in general is a pretty good indicator of success. And of course, that they have commit to having nice facilities. This COULD turn into a good thing if they commit recourses like Loyola did.

And...Bring in Murray. Just do it.