Loyola Leaving for A-10

[E-Villan]

I don't know the history well enough to agree or disagree with the original post, but I will add one note. I lived in Evansville for a couple of years between 2018-2020. Went to several MVC games while I lived there. They always seemed to have their tickets sold numbers to be around 5,500 or somewhere around there, but there was not a single person within spitting distance in any given direction most of the time. 5,500 tickets sold there seemingly equated to about 1,000 people at the game. It was EMPTY.

I even remember laughing at a newspaper article I saw one day titled "University of Evansville Setting Attendance Records." In the article, it literally had a picture of 2 fans surrounded by empty seats. Lol

I am pretty sure all MVC schools use tickets sold for attendance. They really don't care if you show up as long as you have paid for it.

Between 2018-20 there weren't any attendance records broken...not even close. I am pretty sure the biggest draw during that period would have been a Murray State game, which turned out to be McCarty's final game before he got canned. I think it was around 7,500, certainly not a sellout. In the Ford Center era alone, I can think of at least 3 sellouts..the opening game against Butler, and Indiana and North Carolina. I am pretty sure the home game against Wichita in 2016 was close as well. Going back to Roberts Stadium, there were multiple years of 10K and 11K averages, so again, I don't think anyone was bragging about attendance records in 2018. Unfortunately, with Lickliter's lack of offense or willingness to communicate with the fans, none will be broken this year either.

[VUGrad1314]

Sub 200 KenPoms for KC and Arlington? I had no idea UTA was THAT bad. I'm going to be sick if these two are added. They will tank the metrics of every team they play. It would make adding the Racers not the day of celebration that it is supposed to be but the day the conference jumped the shark and ceased to be relevant as a multibid league. We can't at least take NKU over KC? Or UIC even? (if the school is going to struggle might as well be close and in the key market for the MVC). If Arlington gets in they had better pump amazing amounts of money into their program and the private schools had better set enrollment records or this is a massive failure. If we only get a handful of Texas students from this it simply isn't worth doing. I know Valpo has sucked too but that's all the more reason why we have to get these new additions right. We can't afford to take on more albatrosses. I know we haven't invested in our facilities nearly enough but at least we had a banner of success and tradition to carry into the league even though it is now ripped up and tattered by the rigors of this league. What does Arlington have besides the hope and possible promise that they will spend some money on athletics? Let's see it then because the best that I can tell is that they've been modernizing their campus which is great but it doesn't help the league on the court and could lead to a major loss of an important revenue source for the MVC if it becomes a perennial one bid league.

[E-Villan]

At the time of add, not present day. No need to get all defensive.

UNI at the time was in the middle of a giant capital fundraising campaign that ended up quadrupling the athletics budget, built what was at the time a practice facility as much as they existed at the time (since given back to the academic side once the McLeod Center was built), re-did the north end of the Dome and renovated the West Gym (then home to VB, WBB). We had also only been out of DI transition for about 6 years.

What we've achieved on the court considering our limitations is pretty damn remarkable.

And you've got the wrong guy about the Valpo board, I'm not sure I've ever taken more than a cursory glance at it and that's just because I respect the hell out of VUGrad.

Not defensive, potential is about the only thing we got going for us right now, and that probably isn't going to change until we make a coaching change.

Agree, you are probably the biggest overachievers in the conference. I would give Greg Lansing a close second. We would probably agree on who has been the biggest underachievers as well, but no need to go into that now.

My apologies for confusing you with whoever it was on the Valpo board. It was when they first joined. I can't remember who other than it was a UNI screenname I recognized from here as well. It was pure comedy. He lectured them about the drain of all the private schools (apparently unaware Valpo was private), how UNI was now the lone flagbearer for the conference, page after page, most posts were mini-novels. I remember one went on and on about how great the pool was. Again, my apologies.

[Kyle_Saluki_17]

I don't know the history well enough to agree or disagree with the original post, but I will add one note. I lived in Evansville for a couple of years between 2018-2020. Went to several MVC games while I lived there. They always seemed to have their tickets sold numbers to be around 5,500 or somewhere around there, but there was not a single person within spitting distance in any given direction most of the time. 5,500 tickets sold there seemingly equated to about 1,000 people at the game. It was EMPTY.

I even remember laughing at a newspaper article I saw one day titled "University of Evansville Setting Attendance Records." In the article, it literally had a picture of 2 fans surrounded by empty seats. Lol

I am pretty sure all MVC schools use tickets sold for attendance. They really don't care if you show up as long as you have paid for it.

Between 2018-20 there weren't any attendance records broken...not even close. I am pretty sure the biggest draw during that period would have been a Murray State game, which turned out to be McCarty's final game before he got canned. I think it was around 7,500, certainly not a sellout. In the Ford Center era alone, I can think of at least 3 sellouts..the opening game against Butler, and Indiana and North Carolina. I am pretty sure the home game against Wichita in 2016 was close as well. Going back to Roberts Stadium, there were multiple years of 10K and 11K averages, so again, I don't think anyone was bragging about attendance records in 2018. Unfortunately, with Lickliter's lack of offense or willingness to communicate with the fans, none will be broken this year either.

I know every MVC team uses tickets sold. Basically what I am saying is that 5,000 tickets reported in the Banterra Center is a way different feel than 5,000 tickets in the Ford Center as far as people showing up. UE reported an average tickets sold of 5,299 in the 18-19 season. This is the season when I went to a lot of games. Most of those games were very, very empty. I know the actual number of people that show up is irrelevant, because tickets sold is income regardless. Just makes me wonder where the additional 4,000 tickets ended up each night. That is all.

[mvfcfan]

Sub 200 KenPoms for KC and Arlington? I had no idea UTA was THAT bad. I'm going to be sick if these two are added. They will tank the metrics of every team they play. It would make adding the Racers not the day of celebration that it is supposed to be but the day the conference jumped the shark and ceased to be relevant as a multibid league. We can't at least take NKU over KC? Or UIC even? (if the school is going to struggle might as well be close and in the key market for the MVC). If Arlington gets in they had better pump amazing amounts of money into their program and the private schools had better set enrollment records or this is a massive failure. If we only get a handful of Texas students from this it simply isn't worth doing. I know Valpo has sucked too but that's all the more reason why we have to get these new additions right. We can't afford to take on more albatrosses. I know we haven't invested in our facilities nearly enough but at least we had a banner of success and tradition to carry into the league even though it is now ripped up and tattered by the rigors of this league. What does Arlington have besides the hope and possible promise that they will spend some money on athletics? Let's see it then because the best that I can tell is that they've been modernizing their campus which is great but it doesn't help the league on the court and could lead to a major loss of an important revenue source for the MVC if it becomes a perennial one bid league.

Murray State and Northern Kentucky make the most sense and would be the best two adds by far. However I think the MVC will add Murray State and UIC. I really don't think they will add UTA and/or UMKC, or at least I hope they don't.

[Kyle_Saluki_17]

Sub 200 KenPoms for KC and Arlington? I had no idea UTA was THAT bad. I'm going to be sick if these two are added. They will tank the metrics of every team they play. It would make adding the Racers not the day of celebration that it is supposed to be but the day the conference jumped the shark and ceased to be relevant as a multibid league. We can't at least take NKU over KC? Or UIC even? (if the school is going to struggle might as well be close and in the key market for the MVC). If Arlington gets in they had better pump amazing amounts of money into their program and the private schools had better set enrollment records or this is a massive failure. If we only get a handful of Texas students from this it simply isn't worth doing. I know Valpo has sucked too but that's all the more reason why we have to get these new additions right. We can't afford to take on more albatrosses. I know we haven't invested in our facilities nearly enough but at least we had a banner of success and tradition to carry into the league even though it is now ripped up and tattered by the rigors of this league. What does Arlington have besides the hope and possible promise that they will spend some money on athletics? Let's see it then because the best that I can tell is that they've been modernizing their campus which is great but it doesn't help the league on the court and could lead to a major loss of an important revenue source for the MVC if it becomes a perennial one bid league.

Valpo is 254 lol. Keep in mind that the A-10 has several bottom feeders as well. They have no problem getting at-large bids. Something that I have noticed is that it is more about how many top 100 teams that you have more than avoiding bottom dwellers.

[RacerJoeD]

Im gonna post this again for everyone to look at. It is a DEEP dive comparing the expansion targets for the MVC. Watch the video, but make sure you have the pause button handy, because its a ton of info on all of these schools.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3en4npeWKZ4

[BCPanther]

At the time of add, not present day. No need to get all defensive.

UNI at the time was in the middle of a giant capital fundraising campaign that ended up quadrupling the athletics budget, built what was at the time a practice facility as much as they existed at the time (since given back to the academic side once the McLeod Center was built), re-did the north end of the Dome and renovated the West Gym (then home to VB, WBB). We had also only been out of DI transition for about 6 years.

What we've achieved on the court considering our limitations is pretty damn remarkable.

And you've got the wrong guy about the Valpo board, I'm not sure I've ever taken more than a cursory glance at it and that's just because I respect the hell out of VUGrad.

Not defensive, potential is about the only thing we got going for us right now, and that probably isn't going to change until we make a coaching change.

Agree, you are probably the biggest overachievers in the conference. I would give Greg Lansing a close second. We would probably agree on who has been the biggest underachievers as well, but no need to go into that now.

My apologies for confusing you with whoever it was on the Valpo board. It was when they first joined. I can't remember who other than it was a UNI screenname I recognized from here as well. It was pure comedy. He lectured them about the drain of all the private schools (apparently unaware Valpo was private), how UNI was now the lone flagbearer for the conference, page after page, most posts were mini-novels. I remember one went on and on about how great the pool was. Again, my apologies.

You're all good!

I know who you're talking about and he's going through some stuff right now, so I won't pile on.

This league gets better when everybody gets better and Lickliter was a nice choice to stabilize things and move it on to the next guy who (hopefully) is a bit more exciting.

[BCPanther]

Sub 200 KenPoms for KC and Arlington? I had no idea UTA was THAT bad. I'm going to be sick if these two are added. They will tank the metrics of every team they play. It would make adding the Racers not the day of celebration that it is supposed to be but the day the conference jumped the shark and ceased to be relevant as a multibid league. We can't at least take NKU over KC? Or UIC even? (if the school is going to struggle might as well be close and in the key market for the MVC). If Arlington gets in they had better pump amazing amounts of money into their program and the private schools had better set enrollment records or this is a massive failure. If we only get a handful of Texas students from this it simply isn't worth doing. I know Valpo has sucked too but that's all the more reason why we have to get these new additions right. We can't afford to take on more albatrosses. I know we haven't invested in our facilities nearly enough but at least we had a banner of success and tradition to carry into the league even though it is now ripped up and tattered by the rigors of this league. What does Arlington have besides the hope and possible promise that they will spend some money on athletics? Let's see it then because the best that I can tell is that they've been modernizing their campus which is great but it doesn't help the league on the court and could lead to a major loss of an important revenue source for the MVC if it becomes a perennial one bid league.

Valpo is 254 lol. Keep in mind that the A-10 has several bottom feeders as well. They have no problem getting at-large bids. Something that I have noticed is that it is more about how many top 100 teams that you have more than avoiding bottom dwellers.

Exactly and they can manipulate it by scheduling strategically, the fact that we're going away from the double round robin is a huge benefit.

In the last real season, 19-20, the A10 had 7 in the top 125 but also had: 241 GW, 245 Fordham and 260 St Joes.

The Valley had 5 in the top 125 and only had one team worse than those three (294 Evansville).

A ton of that A10 love is geography and access to media. I am sure Jackson is going to be really aggressive in getting us more national pub.

I don't understand the obsession with NKU, if you're going to have an afterthought, have an afterthought in a substantially bigger market with money to invest and student body of 45,000 that's in an absolute hotbed of high school recruits.

I've long been a proponent of Arlington and I think they're a great add. I've been lukewarm on Murray but in a 14 team league they make all sorts of sense. Kansas City is what they are (235 KenPom in 19-20, fwiw) but they fit the footprint, sit in a place full of Valley alumni and are also committed to getting better.

[Murraygrad05]

Sub 200 KenPoms for KC and Arlington? I had no idea UTA was THAT bad. I'm going to be sick if these two are added. They will tank the metrics of every team they play. It would make adding the Racers not the day of celebration that it is supposed to be but the day the conference jumped the shark and ceased to be relevant as a multibid league. We can't at least take NKU over KC? Or UIC even? (if the school is going to struggle might as well be close and in the key market for the MVC). If Arlington gets in they had better pump amazing amounts of money into their program and the private schools had better set enrollment records or this is a massive failure. If we only get a handful of Texas students from this it simply isn't worth doing. I know Valpo has sucked too but that's all the more reason why we have to get these new additions right. We can't afford to take on more albatrosses. I know we haven't invested in our facilities nearly enough but at least we had a banner of success and tradition to carry into the league even though it is now ripped up and tattered by the rigors of this league. What does Arlington have besides the hope and possible promise that they will spend some money on athletics? Let's see it then because the best that I can tell is that they've been modernizing their campus which is great but it doesn't help the league on the court and could lead to a major loss of an important revenue source for the MVC if it becomes a perennial one bid league.

Valpo is 254 lol. Keep in mind that the A-10 has several bottom feeders as well. They have no problem getting at-large bids. Something that I have noticed is that it is more about how many top 100 teams that you have more than avoiding bottom dwellers.

Exactly and they can manipulate it by scheduling strategically, the fact that we're going away from the double round robin is a huge benefit.

In the last real season, 19-20, the A10 had 7 in the top 125 but also had: 241 GW, 245 Fordham and 260 St Joes.

The Valley had 5 in the top 125 and only had one team worse than those three (294 Evansville).

A ton of that A10 love is geography and access to media. I am sure Jackson is going to be really aggressive in getting us more national pub.

I don't understand the obsession with NKU, if you're going to have an afterthought, have an afterthought in a substantially bigger market with money to invest and student body of 45,000 that's in an absolute hotbed of high school recruits.

I've long been a proponent of Arlington and I think they're a great add. I've been lukewarm on Murray but in a 14 team league they make all sorts of sense. Kansas City is what they are (235 KenPom in 19-20, fwiw) but they fit the footprint, sit in a place full of Valley alumni and are also committed to getting better.

If 2 winning seasons in 10 years is your idea of committed to getting better then okie dokie. Same with Arlington. I can’t recall them ever getting national attention for anything.