New Expansion Poll Thread

[05Racer]

Take NDSU off the list. Adding both Dakota States would have been a good move for the valley at one time. And it certainly would have excited NDSU fans. But not anymore. Honestly, a conference with UIC in it is meh. A Chicago commuter school spitting distance from some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the city. No thank you. The Valley really has fallen if the leadership thought UIC was a good idea. Granted, the Summit isn't great. But we're already there and usually are a contender. So we might as well stay unless something develops on the football side.

Where in Chicago isn't within spitting distance of a dangerous neighborhood these days?

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Honestly, a conference with UIC in it is meh. A Chicago commuter school spitting distance from some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the city. No thank you.

Well, Chicago’s North Side, Loop, South Loop, and West Loop (UIC) is collectively one of the safer urban environments in the US. The crime rates in those areas are in line with Toronto.

Now, the South Side and West Side (specifically 8% of Chicago’s census tracts) have war zone-esque murder rates, but you wouldn’t be venturing there anyway. Chicago’s lines of demarcation are pretty clear.

UIC’s West Loop location is a pretty big plus today, as opposed to 20 years ago. It’s been trending upwards as tons of quality restaurants, tech firms, and art galleries have moved right by there.

Chicago basketball recruiting is like Florida football recruiting, and UIC’s West Loop location is pretty optimal in that regard.

[Greg]

Well, Chicago’s North Side, Loop, South Loop, and West Loop (UIC) is collectively one of the safer urban environments in the US. The crime rates in those areas are in line with Toronto.

Now, the South Side and West Side (specifically 8% of Chicago’s census tracts) have war zone-esque murder rates, but you wouldn’t be venturing there anyway. Chicago’s lines of demarcation are pretty clear.

UIC’s West Loop location is a pretty big plus today, as opposed to 20 years ago. It’s been trending upwards as tons of quality restaurants, tech firms, and art galleries have moved right by there.

Chicago basketball recruiting is like Florida football recruiting, and UIC’s West Loop location is pretty optimal in that regard.

Very true MissouriValleyUnite . I had to chuckle when we were in New Orleans a few years ago we met a family from a further Chicago suburb said they were concerned going into Chicago. Go just a little bit outside the small tourist area in New Orleans and you would realize how dangerous it is there. Especially for drunken tourists.

Yeah 05racer, tell us how safe Redneck Rave was last year in Kentucky. https://www.thedailybeast.com/redneck-r ... ss-arrests

Should I be afraid to go to Kentucky now?

Compare with Lollapalooza Chicago which was way way larger and much safer

[DUBulldog]

Honestly, a conference with UIC in it is meh. A Chicago commuter school spitting distance from some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the city. No thank you.

Well, Chicago’s North Side, Loop, South Loop, and West Loop (UIC) is collectively one of the safer urban environments in the US. The crime rates in those areas are in line with Toronto.

Now, the South Side and West Side (specifically 8% of Chicago’s census tracts) have war zone-esque murder rates, but you wouldn’t be venturing there anyway. Chicago’s lines of demarcation are pretty clear.

UIC’s West Loop location is a pretty big plus today, as opposed to 20 years ago. It’s been trending upwards as tons of quality restaurants, tech firms, and art galleries have moved right by there.

Chicago basketball recruiting is like Florida football recruiting, and UIC’s West Loop location is pretty optimal in that regard.

Yeah, I'm not sure why Chicago is always the poster child for crime. Many cities in US are far more dangerous, including St Louis, home of our conference tournament.

Not sure how accurate this website is, but this link shows St Louis as #1 most dangerous city in US, Chicago not even in top 15. https://usabynumbers.com/cities-with-hi ... rime-rate/

[Greg]

Very true DUBulldog. All it takes is a few people with a big following to post untruthful comments

[Campbellproud]

Take NDSU off the list. Adding both Dakota States would have been a good move for the valley at one time. And it certainly would have excited NDSU fans. But not anymore. Honestly, a conference with UIC in it is meh. A Chicago commuter school spitting distance from some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the city. No thank you. The Valley really has fallen if the leadership thought UIC was a good idea. Granted, the Summit isn't great. But we're already there and usually are a contender. So we might as well stay unless something develops on the football side.

NDSU is not on anyone’s list outside message boards. It’s at best a middling program in the middle of absolutely nowhere. NDSU is stuck in the Summit forever, so they just need to make the best of it. It was never mentioned as an option for the MVC, and never will given the direction of the league. There is literally no upside whatsoever to adding them or any of the Dakotas. They have a good football team, but the MVC could care less about that because it doesn’t have football. The MVFC does. I think UIC is a great add. You’ve clearly never been there and only believe what you hear about Chicago on Fox News. You’re clearly butt hurt that other teams got in when the league didn’t even sniff NDSU.

[professorbum]

Take NDSU off the list. Adding both Dakota States would have been a good move for the valley at one time. And it certainly would have excited NDSU fans. But not anymore. Honestly, a conference with UIC in it is meh. A Chicago commuter school spitting distance from some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the city. No thank you. The Valley really has fallen if the leadership thought UIC was a good idea. Granted, the Summit isn't great. But we're already there and usually are a contender. So we might as well stay unless something develops on the football side.

NDSU is not on anyone’s list outside message boards. It’s at best a middling program in the middle of absolutely nowhere. NDSU is stuck in the Summit forever, so they just need to make the best of it. It was never mentioned as an option for the MVC, and never will given the direction of the league. There is literally no upside whatsoever to adding them or any of the Dakotas. They have a good football team, but the MVC could care less about that because it doesn’t have football. The MVFC does. I think UIC is a great add. You’ve clearly never been there and only believe what you hear about Chicago on Fox News. You’re clearly butt hurt that other teams got in when the league didn’t even sniff NDSU.

I'm actually from the Chicago area. I attended UIC my first year of grad school after undergrad at Champaign-Urbana. I finished my masters at NIU. I worked for a number of years in downtown Chicago. I know the area around UIC well. UIC is a great school academically, but has no real basketball tradition or following.

Despite no real connections to schools in the MVC, I have been a casual MVC fan for as long as I can remember. It was always the best mid-major conference. If you think adding UIC is a good idea, fine. I just don't think so. It further weakens what in my mind was once a premier conference. To score the trifecta, go ahead and add UMKC and UT Arlington. Between the three of them, you'll increase the MVC fanbase by dozens.

And to other posters that retorted to me that UIC is safe, I had said UIC is spitting distance (near) unsafe areas, not that the campus itself or the immediate gentrified area around the campus is particularly dangerous.

The only reason I'm an NDSU fan is because I work there. I wasn't talking smack as an NDSU fan. NDSU and SDSU was in your poll and people were posting about them. All I said, from my standpoint, is that the MVC isn't as attractive as it once was, so I don't think NDSU would be interested, given the hypothetical. I get it that NDSU in actuality has never garnered interest from the MVC. I'm not butthurt. I actually don't give a s***.

[Mikovio]

UIC and NDSU have very similar attendance numbers this season actually.

[DUBulldog]

Take NDSU off the list. Adding both Dakota States would have been a good move for the valley at one time. And it certainly would have excited NDSU fans. But not anymore. Honestly, a conference with UIC in it is meh. A Chicago commuter school spitting distance from some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the city. No thank you. The Valley really has fallen if the leadership thought UIC was a good idea. Granted, the Summit isn't great. But we're already there and usually are a contender. So we might as well stay unless something develops on the football side.

NDSU is not on anyone’s list outside message boards. It’s at best a middling program in the middle of absolutely nowhere. NDSU is stuck in the Summit forever, so they just need to make the best of it. It was never mentioned as an option for the MVC, and never will given the direction of the league. There is literally no upside whatsoever to adding them or any of the Dakotas. They have a good football team, but the MVC could care less about that because it doesn’t have football. The MVFC does. I think UIC is a great add. You’ve clearly never been there and only believe what you hear about Chicago on Fox News. You’re clearly butt hurt that other teams got in when the league didn’t even sniff NDSU.

I'm actually from the Chicago area. I attended UIC my first year of grad school after undergrad at Champaign-Urbana. I finished my masters at NIU. I worked for a number of years in downtown Chicago. I know the area around UIC well. UIC is a great school academically, but has no real basketball tradition or following.

Despite no real connections to schools in the MVC, I have been a casual MVC fan for as long as I can remember. It was always the best mid-major conference. If you think adding UIC is a good idea, fine. I just don't think so. It further weakens what in my mind was once a premier conference. To score the trifecta, go ahead and add UMKC and UT Arlington. Between the three of them, you'll increase the MVC fanbase by dozens.

And to other posters that retorted to me that UIC is safe, I had said UIC is spitting distance (near) unsafe areas, not that the campus itself or the immediate gentrified area around the campus is particularly dangerous.

The only reason I'm an NDSU fan is because I work there. I wasn't talking smack as an NDSU fan. NDSU and SDSU was in your poll and people were posting about them. All I said, from my standpoint, is that the MVC isn't as attractive as it once was, so I don't think NDSU would be interested, given the hypothetical. I get it that NDSU in actuality has never garnered interest from the MVC. I'm not butthurt. I actually don't give a s***.

Overall, a very good post. I do want to just touch on the part that I bolded. As a native of the Chicago area, I know for sure that UIC is within spitting distance of unsafe areas. And, as you said, UIC itself is safe. So, I'm not sure what the relevance is of mentioning that it's close to unsafe areas. So is Creighton. So is Butler. So is Drake. So is the MVC tourney in St. Louis. I'm guessing that most urban colleges are close to an unsafe area. Not sure why UIC should be singled out for that.

Anyway, I'm much more excited about Murray and Belmont joining than I am UIC. But, if it came down to UIC, UTA and UMKC, UIC is by far the best choice of those 3.

[professorbum]

Overall, a very good post. I do want to just touch on the part that I bolded. As a native of the Chicago area, I know for sure that UIC is within spitting distance of unsafe areas. And, as you said, UIC itself is safe. So, I'm not sure what the relevance is of mentioning that it's close to unsafe areas. So is Creighton. So is Butler. So is Drake. So is the MVC tourney in St. Louis. I'm guessing that most urban colleges are close to an unsafe area. Not sure why UIC should be singled out for that.

Anyway, I'm much more excited about Murray and Belmont joining than I am UIC. But, if it came down to UIC, UTA and UMKC, UIC is by far the best choice of those 3.

That's a fair point. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned crime. Perhaps crime feels like more like an issue at UIC because everyone there is coming from somewhere else and therefore are often passing through bad neighborhoods (by train, or interstate, or whatever). The private schools you mentioned all have significant residential populations. At Butler, two-thirds of the students live in campus-owned housing. At Creighton, more than half do. At UIC, 6% of students live in campus housing. So it just feels different I guess. Again, to be clear, UIC is an outstanding university. I mean, it really is a legit top-notch institution. I just don't think its athletics program is consistent with what I've always believed about the Valley. But times do change.

In any case, I wish the MVC well and I wish the Flames well.