Another Expansion/Realignment Thread

[Chuck A]

It's been over a year since the last "New Expansion Poll" thread was posted. Since then, UCLA & USC have been invited and accepted to the B1G Conference. The timetable for Texas & Oklahoma has been moved up with both only having one more year in the Big 12 before moving to the SEC. In '23-'24 the Big 12 will play with 14 teams then drop to 12 for '24-'25, unless they add the 4 corner schools (Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado & Utah) and match the B1G with 16 teams. There will be huge expansion and realignment in the next two years and will definitely affect a number of schools and conferences. Like it or not it's coming and will more than likely include the MVC as it tries to remain relevant by solidifying/strengthening itself against poaching and/or falling behind.

Over the past year we've seen movement and heard rumors of other possibilities. Once the Big 12 makes its invites, the PAC-12 will follow suit and probably look to the Mountain West which will probably in turn look to the WCC, WAC or both. Whether Missouri State is poached or not, I still think the Valley will make an invite or two. The previous candidates (NKU, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Arlington) will still be in play, along with some surprise players (Bellarmine? St. Thomas?). I realize that some posters want the Valley to stand pat, saying, "There's no reason to expand" and, "Not to expand for the sake of expanding", but with what looks like a whirlwind of movement in the next 48 months, shouldn't the Valley have all its ducks in a row to be prepared when the realignment wave hits? 14 teams wouldn't be so bad for this Conference. Having that number will also help some teams with travel costs as Drake & UNI may only go to Nashville once every other year, for example.

In the event that it does happen, my pair choices would be:
1. Northern Kentucky-Bellarmine
2. NKU-Milwaukee
3. NKU-St. Thomas
4. Milwaukee-St. Thomas
5. Bellarmine-Kansas City

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Opposed to expansion but I would pick St Thomas.

St Thomas is absolutely loaded and is building one of the premier mid-majors arenas in the country. They fill a void of being the #2 school in the most populus state with only 2 D1 schools. Prime location, fertile recruiting ground, and they help out Drake/UNI.

[SalukiWorld]

Any expansion talk should start at St. Thomas with their new arena coming and the proximity to the Iowa schools. I'd like to keep expanding North if they do that whether it's a Dakota school(s) or Milwaukee.

[Chuck A]

Opposed to expansion but my pairing would be St Thomas and Oral Roberts.

St Thomas is absolutely loaded and is building one of the premier mid-majors arenas in the country. They fill a void of being the #2 school in the most populus state with only 2 D1 schools. Prime location, fertile recruiting ground, and they help out Drake/UNI.

Oral Roberts has put out many good teams over the years, including a Sweet 16 two years ago and a possible run this year. I was at Mabee Center recently and there were 8k fans. Great environment. Mabee was just renovated and would now be one of the top arenas in the Valley. MVC has had success in Tulsa before, and they help out Missouri St being on an island.

ORU has an MVC-ready budget and UST is wealthier than every MVC school.

I hadn't really thought about Oral Roberts and how their program is coming along. Tulsa was indeed in the Valley, so the league does have familiarity with the region. Not a bad choice. You made some good points concerning both schools.

[BCPanther]

Your first move is to see what happens with Air Force football. There's a legitimate chance they end up in the new Pac as a football only member or the new AAC adds them and Army as football only members. They'd be option 1-100 as the next member. After that, I'm inclined to say St Thomas but they aren't eligible to move anywhere until 2027 as part of their D3 to D1 special waiver.

There's no hurry to do anything at this point. I'd be a hard no on Milwaukee, fwiw. We need to grow into areas with a growing population and Milwaukee isn't that.

12 is a really good number and I think the league takes a giant step forward next year as a whole.

[mvfcfan]

The MVC should stay at 12, mainly because I don't trust their decision making in that office half of the time. Also 14 is just more mouths to feed. We already don't have a round robin anymore which is disappointing. Hindsight is always 20/20 but here's the breakdown.

2013 Loyola- Ended up being a good add, until they ditched the league for the A10.

2017 Valpo- Clearly a mistake in my opinion. Now they're having financial issues it seems. Their facilities are awful. Murray State should have been the obvious addition here. Missed out on the Ja Morant years because of that mistake too. Murray State would have been the perfect replacement for Wichita for so many reasons from the fans, the school colors, and not being an actual state (lol). At the very least the MVC should have made 11 work for a few years.

2022 Murray State- Only 5 years late, but at least they finally got it right.

2022 Belmont- Took 9 years to finally get the school they had wanted all along. Very good basketball program with a very small fan base, but no complaints from me. They take their program seriously and that's what counts.

2022 UIC- To be determined. They have never really been a good basketball program, but they do have deep pockets to where they could compete. Everything about the Horizon League's Northern KY's basketball program looks better besides that they're not in that Chicago region that the University Presidents want in so badly. One could also argue that while Valpo is not in Chicago's city limits, they are definitely part of that region. Still not convinced that UIC was the right decision, but they have the opportunity to prove me wrong.

So really they're 3 for 4 on expansion with #5 to be determined. Maybe I should get off of their backs a bit, but we have enough members now that we can't really chance having any more anchors.

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In the past we missed out on:

Butler- In the Horizon League for a long time with a great fam base and lots of success, and instead of pouncing on them we were content to stay at 10. They may or may not have ever left in the future. Hard to say for sure.

Western KY- Clearly a miss in my view. They were in the Gateway (Now MVFC) and would have been an easy add. Lots of success in the past and a good fan base.

NDSU and SDSU- Most will disagree, but they would have been great adds that would expanded our presence in the plains with Creighton and Wichita back in 2008. Both have strong fan bases that would have been extremely interested in MVC Basketball at the time when the league was still very highly respected (usually multi-bid) across the country. Both schools would likely still be interested, but their football programs have become so great that FBS is likely in their future at some point down the road. I'm not sure either school should be considered unless the MVC wants to sponsor football for real, and that will never fly with the private schools.

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Targets today:

Northern KY- I believe they have the most potential. Their fan base is growing and they are in a basketball crazy state. Excellent facilities. A natural rival for Murray State and probably Belmont too. I think they'd easily fit in. I would have chose them over UIC to be completely honest.

St Thomas- They were just D3, which is a step down from D2, and they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Not sold on them at all, even if they are showing signs of promise.

Oral Roberts- They would fit and give Missouri State a school in their proximity. ORU has a strong basketball tradition, but they have had financial issues in the past. They would likely be a decent add.

Milwaukee- They're basically UIC in Wisconsin. They could be a good add, they could be an anchor. Who knows for sure.

Kansas City- Facilities suck. Little fan support. Little hoops success. Pass.

Omaha- They're hockey crazy.

So if we ever did expand to 14, my vote today would be for NKU and ORU.

[TBS_20]

My preferred teams in no order

St. Thomas
NDSU
SDSU
Oral Roberts
Northern Kentucky

[Salukimadness86]

If Valpo and Evansville left, I would vote for NKU, who won the Horizon league tournament again, and go after either Butler, or WKU, both of whom have struggled since moving up. Keep it at 12.

[E-Villan]

If Valpo and Evansville left, I would vote for NKU, who won the Horizon league tournament again, and go after either Butler, or WKU, both of whom have struggled since moving up. Keep it at 12.

The only school that could possibly be leaving anytime in the near future would be Missouri State to elevate the football program. UE has thrown too much into facilities in recent years, as well as AD's and coaches to turn around the basketball programs to drop conferences or divisions. The spring sports have improved greatly and both baseball and softball appear to be in the hunt for league titles this year. I can't speak for Valpo, but I don't see them going anywhere now that they are in.

Butler will not leave the Big East money no matter how non-competitive they are and WKU is not giving up FBS.

If Missouri State goes, St. Thomas should get the call at this time. I do think we need to go into a large metro that would be advantageous to Drake and UNI. As much as I dislike Scott Davenport, I would vote for Bellarmine for the next spot. Louisville is a large metro in the footprint and Bellarmine appears willing to spend money. Davenport would certainly be the most hated coach in the league since Gregggggggggg.

[Bulldog4life24]

Your first move is to see what happens with Air Force football. There's a legitimate chance they end up in the new Pac as a football only member or the new AAC adds them and Army as football only members. They'd be option 1-100 as the next member. After that, I'm inclined to say St Thomas but they aren't eligible to move anywhere until 2027 as part of their D3 to D1 special waiver.

There's no hurry to do anything at this point. I'd be a hard no on Milwaukee, fwiw. We need to grow into areas with a growing population and Milwaukee isn't that.

12 is a really good number and I think the league takes a giant step forward next year as a whole.

Agree with this. Most of the school’s mentioned don’t move the needle meaningfully in any way, and the Presidents are NEVER voting for the Dakotas. Ever. It isn’t happening