Another Expansion/Realignment Thread

[Chuck A]

For those of you who think the MVC needs to expand, why? What exactly do you think adding any of the schools mentioned in this thread does to benefit the conference?

I don't think the fans really "want" an MVC expansion as much as realizing that there might be a "need" to expand because of the inevitability. After the B1G, SEC and Big 12 moves, there will be other realignment. That resultant phase, of course, won't be as cataclysmic as the aforementioned, but it will at some point impact The Valley. The fan base is just coming up with possible scenarios that could keep the Valley in the upper half of the now 30+ conferences.

With dwindling enrollments across the landscape and schools adapting their previous philosophies concerning public, private, geographic and regional preferences it's not unthinkable that the MVC won't try to "keep up" or get ahead of the pending upheaval. Why else would the Valley take on a program like UIC which hadn't gone to the Dance since 2004? My alma mater resides in a city that is the lifeblood of a great majority of Valley schools. This is the same reason Commissioner Jackson and the Expansion Committee considered growing markets like Arlington and Kansas City and ultimately invited Belmont (although Belmont was a winning program as well). There's still talk of Missouri State positioning itself for FBS "greener" pastures. Some have also recently posited that Belmont will eventually bolt once they continue auditioning their successful run of 20-win seasons and NCAA trips. The Conference needs to hedge itself against possible defections.

With the changing landscape of college sports and more streaming services trying to get a piece of the action, there's no telling what will happen in the next 10-15 years! A 10-team conference is fastly becoming a relic of a long ago time, being replaced by a 14-team standard. I'm not even mentioning that the P5, or at least the P2 of the B1G and SEC will be 20+ team behemoths!

[TylerDurden]

To me the potential need for expansion comes down to this, if we're worried about FBS teams moving around:

How many schools have shifted football leagues and then become better in the men's basketball pecking order? How many have become worse?

For basketball, it's about at-large opportunities. If a football-playing school was already an at-large contender, it doesn't matter what league it plays in. What matters is how many schools who weren't at-large contenders are now at-large contenders and vice versa. It's not so much about the B1G as it is the Sun Belt, for example.

If our position is that we need to add teams in order to better create at-large opportunities, then I'll listen, though the math there is sketchy, at best.

If we are adding commuter schools to boost student recruitment in KC, we're lost.

[BCPanther]

To me the potential need for expansion comes down to this, if we're worried about FBS teams moving around:

How many schools have shifted football leagues and then become better in the men's basketball pecking order? How many have become worse?

For basketball, it's about at-large opportunities. If a football-playing school was already an at-large contender, it doesn't matter what league it plays in. What matters is how many schools who weren't at-large contenders are now at-large contenders and vice versa. It's not so much about the B1G as it is the Sun Belt, for example.

If our position is that we need to add teams in order to better create at-large opportunities, then I'll listen, though the math there is sketchy, at best.

If we are adding commuter schools to boost student recruitment in KC, we're lost.

At the same time, if schools (privates especially) can't keep their doors open we're boned too.

Universities thinking that the money train was just going to keep rolling indefinitely is going to end up being their downfall in a lot of cases.

[VUGrad1314]

I generally agree though UIC was a special case that will not be replicated. I do however believe that Oral Roberts and South Dakota State can serve the at large mission well far better than any other candidates available. St Thomas has so much money they might be able to do it too. Bellarmine is only on my list due to numbers (assuming we want all three of these which is not a sure bet we'd need a fourth for an even number) and adding a market to attract students. I'm becoming a bit skeptical of them as a viable MVC add. If the MVC adds anyone in the short term it will not be a school that is transitioning or just finished its transition to D1 it will be a school with a proven D1 track record. Only Oral Roberts and South Dakota State fit that bill. St Thomas might get in as a special case due to the Twin Cities' importance to the Iowa schools (I believe our next expansion should be abouit making the schools on the western side of our footprint happy) but that's no gurantee just as I am not sure any expansion at all is guaranteed. I just think it might need to happen if the Sun Belt decides to grow to 16 and adds 3 solid hoops programs (Louisiana Tech Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee). It would not be a good look for the MVC to finish in the same range or even consistently behind the Sun Belt in hoops.

[PretzelDawg]

I'm not sure where this idea of appeasing western schools in the conference comes from. The most western school is Missouri State. I think it is better expanding towards Kentucky and Ohio. The western schools have dried up on the conference.

[TBS_20]

I'm not sure where this idea of appeasing western schools in the conference comes from. The most western school is Missouri State. I think it is better expanding towards Kentucky and Ohio. The western schools have dried up on the conference.

While I disagree with you, looking at it from your logic and what you said makes a lot of sense. Wichita State and Creighton left leaving MoSt. On top of that, MoSt. seems like theyre just waiting for the right opportunity to jump so why try to please them?

[Chuck A]

I generally agree though UIC was a special case that will not be replicated.

Don't be too sure. Again, enrollments are decreasing and schools are closing or cutting programs...including athletics. Vetting schools in large or growing markets is still a prime option for the Expansion Committee. Just a couple students from, say, the Northern Kentucky/Cincinnati area would be huge.

...it will be a school with a proven D1 track record. Only Oral Roberts and South Dakota State fit that bill.

Hmm, ONLY ORU and SDSU? How conveniently you exclude Northern Kentucky which has just won another tournament trip to the Dance, its 4th in 7 years. It is my contention that NKU will make the necessary improvements, financial and otherwise, to be prepared for another interview with The Valley.

St Thomas might get in as a special case due to the Twin Cities' importance to the Iowa schools

It's quite possible. They do have a boatload of money and have garnered a $75 million donation towards a $143 million, 4,000-6,000 seat basketball/hockey arena set to open in '25. They're also focusing on student recruitment outside of Minnesota. Being closer to Iowa would indeed help the travel time/costs for Drake & UNI as well as drawing a few Mpls/St.Paul residents to become students.

(I believe our next expansion should be abouit making the schools on the western side of our footprint happy)

I'm assuming you're talking about the "southwestern" side of our footprint. UNI and Drake are "western" as well, albeit "northwestern". With the constant uncertainty of MSU's tenure in the Valley, I'm sure The powers that be are looking into all options. If the Bears are leaning more toward leaving, what's the use of finding a geographic partner for them? The Valley would have to do it all over again for the new, lone southwesterner, if/when MSU leaves.

[ColonialBulldog]

"For Missouri State athletics, it's starting to look more like a "when" and not an "if" the school will move up a subdivision in Division I football, based on recent comments by the university's president."

https://www.news-leader.com/story/sport ... 189082007/

My vote in order of preference

1) Stay at 11 and keep the round robin
2) invite UST to help exposure for recruiting both students and athletes. Also natural expansion for conference footprint.

[BCPanther]

"For Missouri State athletics, it's starting to look more like a "when" and not an "if" the school will move up a subdivision in Division I football, based on recent comments by the university's president."

https://www.news-leader.com/story/sport ... 189082007/

My vote in order of preference

1) Stay at 11 and keep the round robin
2) invite UST to help exposure for recruiting both students and athletes. Also natural expansion for conference footprint.

Well, I guess the only thing better than being a shitty FCS program playing close to home is to be a shitty FBS program playing games twice as far away.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

"For Missouri State athletics, it's starting to look more like a "when" and not an "if" the school will move up a subdivision in Division I football, based on recent comments by the university's president."

https://www.news-leader.com/story/sport ... 189082007/

My vote in order of preference

1) Stay at 11 and keep the round robin
2) invite UST to help exposure for recruiting both students and athletes. Also natural expansion for conference footprint.

Reading Smart's comments, it's only a matter of time before MSU goes FBS. They probably won't get the Sun Belt invite they wanted, so they'll have to take C-USA which they weren't willing to last summer (per Matt Brown).

An announcement would likely come in early 2024 at the earliest, which means they'd transition up to FBS in the fall of 2025. That would timeup with when St Thomas' probationary period expires and the Tommies' new arena opens.