BEARZ77 wrote:TylerDurden wrote:Which lists would you put Clay on? I think he'll have a hard time cracking the all-conference teams with his MVC-only numbers and the MSU season. I think he's a good player, but these aren't my rules. There's also the old "if you add him, who to you take off?" bit.
I was surprised at how well Okani's numbers stack up in blocks (1st) and steals (3rd) (MVC games only). I'll admit it's for a bad team in pretty low-leverage situations, but he will get some votes because of those numbers. Numbers don't tell the full defensive story, of course.
Well you mention Missouri States year like it's a limiting factor, but then have 5 players from teams below Mo St on your 2nd and 3rd teams. Humrichous has missed a lot of games, but even w/o I wouldn't have him above Donnie; nor Stafford or Rivera. None of them are the 2 way player Donnie is . Stafford scores but has poor shooting #s and Rivera just doesn't do much for me.
Defensively I'd have Donnie just behind Leons, as they are really the only two who can effectively guard 1-5 . And yeah stats like steals and blocked shots are part of a defensive profile, but who can you guard and what's the result when you do is more important in my book. Donnie always gets the top guy regardless of position. In recent weeks he's held Devries scoreless for a second half and 2 ot's, held Tyson[Belmont] and Schweiger[ Valpo] both to 10 pts , and then flipped over the last few minutes against Belmont and guarded Dia while the Bears sealed the game.
I think you've confused my list with the reply to my list that added some of the players you reference, though I did include Stafford on my 3rd team.
IMO, it's going to be hard to ignore Stafford's scoring and, as a reference, his shooting is essentially the same as Clay's in league games at higher volume (43.4% v 44.7%) plus Stafford's hitting 35% from 3pt. Even on a horrible team, when you score nearly 20 ppg, you tend to get some recognition.
Regardless of any one player-versus-player comparison, I do think Missouri State's season is going to limit Clay's chances at the all-conference teams when combined with his MVC-only numbers. He has good, but not eye-popping offensive numbers and the team is likely going to finish in the middle of the pack. He is a good defensive player and should/is likely to make the all-defensive team.
With such a top-heavy league race, there aren't going to be many spots left on the all-conference teams because I think Indiana State and Bradley are going to fill 8/15 alone, then DeVries and Brodie and all of a sudden there are five spots left.
But these back-and-forth discussions really highlight the challenge of putting together all-conference teams and why the MVC and other leagues put restrictions about voting for your own players in place. It also creates a situation where people rely on the stats to differentiate between players.
IIRC, the voters are coaches, SIDs, and a couple of media reps per school. All of those folks are focused on their teams throughout the year and really only pay attention to the other teams when they are on the schedule - and the majority of them are complete homers. Most of them see box scores, not full games, so in the vast majority of cases you're going to need some stats that really jump out at people in comparison to the competition for all-conference spots.
