Wichita @ Drake 1/28 8PM

[DoubleJayAlum]

Marshall is a good coach, and has always been a winner. But there is no arguing the fact that his WSU teams have lost several "big" games. It seem that there has been several occasions where you think that this is the time that WSU finally turns the corner and goes big-time, and then they fall short, or blow a big opportunity. Just my opinion.

And............................the Shockers have won big games. The Shockers have won games on the road. The Shockers have beat teams they are not supposed to beat. The Shockers have a winning program and winning team.

We have a tendency, and I am guilty, of stereotyping teams.

Right, I agree. But he lacks a signature moment, or signature team IMO. No conference titles, and no NCAA appearances at WSU yet, and they have had several opportunities to do those things, with teams that arguably should have done so. Maybe this is the year that he breaks through.

I will say that their loss to Drake last night was not one of those "let down" games for them though. That was just a tough conference game on the road. Everybody loses those games.

I think it is a fair criticism. Maybe it is an unfair perception, but it does seem as though every time WSU is about to enter the polls, they lose a game they are favored to win. Could be bad luck, it could be a coincidence, but it does seem to happen repeatedly.

[Snaggletooth]

Maybe it is an unfair perception, but it does seem as though every time WSU is about to enter the polls, they lose a game they are favored to win. Could be bad luck, it could be a coincidence, but it does seem to happen repeatedly.

It called poll mechanics. If you are on the outside looking in trying to get in the top 25 you have to be perfect and you can't slip up once you get in. If you get in the polls early enough you can get a solid position, then you can slip up and only lose a couple spots, but as long as you don't lose 2 or 3 you stay in and if you keep winning you can move up whether you deserve it or not (Wisconsin is a poster child for this - ranked fairly high, lost 3 games, but are hanging in top 25).

The fact of life is teams are going to lose games that on paper they shouldn't. There were several top 25 teams that did just that this weekend.

[Ace Dad]

Maybe it is an unfair perception, but it does seem as though every time WSU is about to enter the polls, they lose a game they are favored to win. Could be bad luck, it could be a coincidence, but it does seem to happen repeatedly.

It called poll mechanics. If you are on the outside looking in trying to get in the top 25 you have to be perfect and you can't slip up once you get in. If you get in the polls early enough you can get a solid position, then you can slip up and only lose a couple spots, but as long as you don't lose 2 or 3 you stay in and if you keep winning you can move up whether you deserve it or not (Wisconsin is a poster child for this - ranked fairly high, lost 3 games, but are hanging in top 25).

The fact of life is teams are going to lose games that on paper they shouldn't. There were several top 25 teams that did just that this weekend.

Eggxactly.

[Wufan]

I think it is a fair criticism. Maybe it is an unfair perception, but it does seem as though every time WSU is about to enter the polls, they lose a game they are favored to win. Could be bad luck, it could be a coincidence, but it does seem to happen repeatedly.

Yeah, we were on an 8 or 9 game winning streak and had won 16 of 17 just to get to the point of "almost there." Many, many good teams down't win 16 of 17 but stay in the polls. Loosing to Drake, while disappointing, is nothing more than the normal up and down of the season. Drake played better and won and it was the first time that the Shockers lost a game this January.

[shockem]

There was no way the shox were going to win out. Everyone knew we would lose another game or two in conference. Now the real challenge is overcoming the loss and winning at MSU. If they can do that, the ship might be back on course. The shockers have the tenandancy of coming back strong after a loss and I'm sure they're all thinking about what the Bears did to them last year.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Maybe it is an unfair perception, but it does seem as though every time WSU is about to enter the polls, they lose a game they are favored to win. Could be bad luck, it could be a coincidence, but it does seem to happen repeatedly.

It called poll mechanics. If you are on the outside looking in trying to get in the top 25 you have to be perfect and you can't slip up once you get in. If you get in the polls early enough you can get a solid position, then you can slip up and only lose a couple spots, but as long as you don't lose 2 or 3 you stay in and if you keep winning you can move up whether you deserve it or not (Wisconsin is a poster child for this - ranked fairly high, lost 3 games, but are hanging in top 25).

The fact of life is teams are going to lose games that on paper they shouldn't. There were several top 25 teams that did just that this weekend.

Agreed. Whether you realize it or not, what you said and what I said are pretty close. By no means am I saying that drake was a bad loss!

My point was one of timing. But for the Drake loss, WSU probably enters the top 25 this week in at least one of the polls. Such is the life of a midmajor - it takes about 9 or 10 consecutive wins to get national attention.

Their is another discussion that I didn't touch on - Has Marshall underachieved? I think one could make the strong case that WSu was the most talented MVC team last year and, because of dropping games against bad teams didn't make the dance. The corollary question would probably be, "Is it Marshall's fault or the player's fault?"

[valleychamp]

Marshall has underachieved at WSU to this point, I don't know how you could argue otherwise. In both 2010, and 2011 he had teams that should have played in the NCAA tournament. Especially last year, when they had by far the best and most talented team in the league. He has won a lot of games to this point, but not a lot of big wins in there IMO.

[getreal4]

Marshall has underachieved at WSU to this point, I don't know how you could argue otherwise. In both 2010, and 2011 he had teams that should have played in the NCAA tournament. Especially last year, when they had by far the best and most talented team in the league. He has won a lot of games to this point, but not a lot of big wins in there IMO.

Add quality facilities, excellent fanbase, top Valley financial resources and Marshall has not yet acheived to the level fanatics would expect. Make the dance this year and its all good.... for now!

High expectations due to the big bucks and resource commitment from the Shox.

[2livewu]

Totally ridiculous and unfair generalizations.

The program financially is in better shape than any in the Valley, except maybe Creighton. Gregg has won 100 games faster than any WSU coach in history. He's won a major tournament. Finished at least 2nd 3 of 5 years. Reached the first final ever in St. Louis, and won more postseason games than any WSU coach, EVER, by a WIDE margin.

He's graduated EVERY senior in the program, and to my knowledge there have been ZERO cases of any players getting in trouble outside of the gym, save missing a class here or there.

And as much as the rest of the Valley wants to hate WSU, you'd be very hard pressed to say "player X" is a real jackass on the floor...I hate those guys. Gregg may have his quirks, but you simply can't say he hasn't won and lost without class, with the one game in St Louis in year 1 being the exception, and again, name 1 player while he's been here that you would label an ass. For instance, I think most people would say Weems is an ass, that aren't fans of MSU.

Also, I don't know what he was picked in year 1 and 2, but in 2 he tied for 4th (I think, it could have been 5th) and then picked 2nd and finished a clear 2nd, then picked first and lost 1st on the last day of the season, then picked 2nd and will finish no lower than 2nd. Perhaps it's a few WSU fans unreasonable expectations rubbing off on other fan bases. Or perhaps it's just jealousy from people who wish their team could compete at a national level (which nobody except CU can by the way).

Either way.......underachieving? I think not.

[valleychamp]

Ridiculous? No. Unfair? Maybe. But that's just the way it is in college basketball. You can talk about how he has won so many "postseason" games, but you and everyone else knows that the only postseason that matters is the NCAA tournament.

WSU could have easily been in the tournament each of the last two seasons, and absolutely should have been a tournament team last year, but they failed to do so.