Creighton to A-10?

[BirdmanBB]

While I can agree with much of this as a base, you also forget that there are other revenue streams that you are neglecting to include.....food and beverage, marketing, donation, merchandising,TV, State funding, School appropriated funding, post season revenue and misc. For example under misc. would be hosting events and such. I know that the redbirds are attempting to get the IHSA Football playoffs back at Illinois State which is another revenue generator. If schools like EMU are able to get by when no one shows up, I think there must be ways to get it done even with 15-20K seating outside of straight ticket sales.

I also left out the cost of building the freaking 30-40K stadium. Want me to run the numbers at an average of 15K attendance?

UNI capacity = 16K
MSU capacity = 16K
IlSU capacity = 14K (after a $20 mill renovation they're just finishing)
SIU capacity - 15K ($29.9 mill stadium completed in 2010)

Creighton gets more people to basketball games than any of those schools can fit into their FB stadiums. Basketball = 13 scholarships and 4 coaches. Creighton is in a position to do more with their basketball program than the FB schools in the Valley can do with their BB programs. The effects of that economic disparity haven't totally revealed themselves yet, but it doesn't take a PhD in Economics to see that CU is in a different situation and that, long-term, an affiliation with another conference is something they need to consider.

Good for creighton, yet, you are still overlooking the fact that football has been the driving force in expansion/realignment. While you can argue all day about the #'s CU brings in for bball, it seems that if you are a school and want to make it anywhere, you better have a football team. So while schools like WSU and Creighton seem to be in a great position as far as bball is concerned, this will only take you so far. BCS conferences are not interested in bball only programs outside of the big east. They are an even greater example that this is going to the wayside as all of their expansion has been focused on football. I doubt Memphis would have sniffed an invite to the Big East if they didn't have a football team as bad as shape that they are in. By this account, the A10 is likely the highest potential destination schools such as WSU and CU will make it because they don't have football. While Schools like ISU, UNI and MSU are not bringing in as much for bball, we all have football and the potential for growth is temendously more than WSU and CU because of it, in the current.

[unipanther99]

I also left out the cost of building the freaking 30-40K stadium.

Argh, I agree with your larger points, but stadium size isn't much of a factor. Look at Idaho, that place is smaller than the three you mentioned. Average attendance is the key. As Jegbomb points on on Panthernation, all you have to do is "host" a game at a NFL stadium every few years to keep your average up. For example, UNI "hosts" Wisconsin at Green Bay or in Miller Park in Wisconsin in return for a game at Madison and UNI gets to count a huge stadium full of Badger fans as a home game.

[TylerDurden]

Serious questions:

Those who are fans of schools with football:
What level are you aspiring to?
Do you just want to be FBS?
Do you want to join a BCS auto-qualifier?
Do you think that a move to the FBS level is feasible and/or sustainable?
Do you think that a move to the BCS level is feasible and/or sustainable?
What are the negative consequences?

Those who are fans of schools without football:
What level are you aspiring to?
What is wrong with the MVC, as you see it?
Would moving to a different league solve the problems as you see it, or just create different problems?
Where do you think you'll be better off?
What are the negative consequences?

[matter_of_fact]

Does anyone know which of the current A-10 members are basketball-only schools and which ones have football?

[Haha]

Does anyone know which of the current A-10 members are basketball-only schools and which ones have football?

Charlotte - just starting football, wants FBS and is talk they will announce move to sunbelt this summer
Dayton - non scholly football like Drake
Duquesne - FCS football
Fordham - FCS football, talk they may move to patriot when it goes scholly FCS
George Washington - no football
La Salle - no football
Umass - just moving to FBS, will play in MAC, eventually will move to different league.
Rhode Island - FCS football
Richmond - FCS football
St. Bonnie - no football
St. Joes - no football
St. Louis - no football
Temple - FBS, leaving for big east
Xavier - club football

[squirrel]

Duquesne plays scholarship FCS FB in the CAA.

The A-10 had football until just a couple years ago when LaSalle dropped their program and UMass was considering a move to FBS. Then the football side dissolved and members went all different directions.

I started jotting down some notes last night about the situation, and I believe that makes 7 schools (counting Butler) who play some form of FCS FB.

One big sticking point about Creighton will be the travel, most notably Rhode Island who has repeatedly demanded less league travel.

VCU has talked about football and started up a club program in recent years with designs on a full varsity program.

[matter_of_fact]

It is easy to see many that many A-10 schools "look" a lot like Creighton in that they are private, Catholic and either don't have football or football is relatively insignificant (i.e. Dayton, Duquesne, Fordham, LaSalle, St. Bonaventure, St. Joseph, St. Louis, Xavier)

[squirrel]

One school I've been keeping an eye on is Bellarmine, in Kentucky. Though not DI at present, they won the DII hoops National Championship in 2011 and have a strategic plan to be THE Catholic University in the South by 2020, and are preparing to make the move, though I don't believe they have made the commitment yet.

[BirdmanBB]

Serious questions:

Those who are fans of schools with football:
What level are you aspiring to? the next one
Do you just want to be FBS? no...why would anyone?
Do you want to join a BCS auto-qualifier? yes...eventually
Do you think that a move to the FBS level is feasible and/or sustainable? yes...eventually
Do you think that a move to the BCS level is feasible and/or sustainable? yes...eventually
What are the negative consequences? Potentially turning into Duke football at the BCS level.

Those who are fans of schools without football:
What level are you aspiring to?
What is wrong with the MVC, as you see it?
Would moving to a different league solve the problems as you see it, or just create different problems?
Where do you think you'll be better off?
What are the negative consequences?

[rlh04d]

The only move I would want Creighton to make would be a move to the Big 12. That would be a big jump but Creighton has the facilities and fan base to do this. Geographically and interest wise, it would make way more sense then the A-10 in my opinion. Wichita could also be included in this move for the same reasons.

Yes, neither has football, but Notre Dame is in the Big East without including football, so it wouldn't be impossible.

You can't honestly think there's any shot of that.

Yes, ND is in the Big East without football. That's one point on your side. On the other hand, Creighton, for all of it's support in the MVC, is not even in the same universe as ND is as far as national recognition goes. ND has their own blog on ESPN for a reason ... Creighton shares one with every single "mid-major" in the country. Plus, a good chunk of ND being in the Big East is because they're desperate for ND to join them in football as well, and already having their other sports gives them the foot in the door for their bargaining (begging) attempts. The Big East and the Big 12 are barely comparable ... the Big East has lots of schools in basketball-only roles in the league (every one of which would be more comparable to Creighton than ND ...), the B12 has none. Why? Because the Big East is a basketball conference that has a respectable football sideshow. The B12 is a football conference that has a respectable basketball sideshow. The BE gets their money from basketball ... the B12 gets their money from football. Massive, massive difference. The B12 might take football-only members (especially if it was ND ...), but they're not taking basketball-only members.

I don't want to let you get your hopes up here. If there could be less than a 0% chance that the Big 12 would come calling on Creighton to join, that's what you'd be looking at. If that's your goal, you need to start lobbying hard for that move to football, because you're going to need ten years of success at the D1 level before the B12 ever considers adding you. Not winning record success ... BCS at-large bowl bids every other year level of success, ala TCU.

Even mentioning Notre Dame in your point proves you have no clue how much clout they have. ND has had little success in football since the mid-90s ... and yet every single conference would fling open their doors in a second to get their football program. The PAC-12 would spend millions in traveling costs in a heartbeat to have them. They are essentially the definition of sports clout. They have their own contract with NBC.

It is impossible to emphasize how much more Creighton has in common with the A10 than the B12.