Conference Realignment - May 1

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Re: Conference Realignment - May 1

Postby TheAsianSensation » May 31st, 2012, 8:27 am

DoubleJayAlum wrote:The frustrating thing is that the A10 really only became a destination conference in the last 60 days, when Butler and VCU jumped there (although it is probably important to point out that one of its most successful programs, Temple, is now gone). Despite being located in many big cities, their TV contract is abysmal (I read an article the other day when it indicates that each team gets about $70K from the deal and not every team is guaranteed a TV appearance). What the A10 has done is established themselves as the premier conference that doesn't have football, thereby having natural appeal to schools that value basketball, have no football programs and worry about where they may end up because they don't have football. That has a strong appeal to the WSUs, Creightons and Bradleys of the world.

I don't know, I think the A-10 has always had more prestige throughout the last decade, even after the Valley rise to a 4-bid season. I think non-football schools in the eastern half of the US consider them to be the top option.

The A10 conference is solid right now, but long term stability is still in question. If the Big East bball schools separate from the FB schools, the A10 could lose its best program in Xavier, plus schools like SLU and Dayton.
The more and more I look at this...if the BEast split happens, the new splinter league probably will be just 10 teams, maybe 12. So it's the 8 splinter schools plus Xavier...and probably Dayton. The A-10 can survive that and stay at the top of the non-footy conference rankings. They've done a great job of esstablishing a footprint, and they can go everywhere from the MAAC to the MVC to the Horizon to the CAA to AEast to find a replacement.


What's interesting about TV is the deal the CAA signed with NBC a couple months ago. CUSA, A-10, and MWC have contracts with CBS. Now, granted, the NBC sports network and CBSCS aren't common household channels yet, but they are channels where they feel like they are a priority, and they're available nationally. The MVC really doesn't have that national presence those conferences have at the moment. I wonder if Elgin should make a push to make this conference more visible on a national stage. I would've pushed to get the same kind of deal the CAA got for their sports - of course, the CAA has better football to peddle.

I'd like to at least see Elgin approach NBC and CBS with a package of football, basketball, soccer, and baseball games and see what they say. Let's get on par with the A-10, CUSA/MWC, and CAA and go from there.

With Butler's departure, I suspect every Horizon league team would look seriously at an MVC offer for membership. Whether any of those has much appeal though is the real question. The only one close would be Milwaukee, and most of its appeal comes from the chance at getting a better TV market plus the fertile recruiting area. In hindsight, we could probably fairly say that the MVC dropped the ball the last few times it added teams in that we traded major to good sized market teams for small to really small market teams each time. This has, no doubt, impacted the MVC's ability to get better TV deals. Perhaps this is having an impact on the MVC's approach to adding teams this time around?

A lot of programs are learning the hard lesson that on field performance is nothing compared to markets now. Look at Appalachian State. They're FURIOUS. They announced last year they wanted to move up to FBS. Quality program on the field. Perfectly capable of winning in FBS RIGHT NOW. But in Boone, North Carolina, in a remote location. Gets passed up by a program with just a couple years of existence (ODU) and two programs that didn't even start yet (UTSA, UNCC). No one wants the actual program capable of winning just because they're in a terrible market.
Last edited by TheAsianSensation on May 31st, 2012, 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Conference Realignment - May 1

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Re: Conference Realignment - May 1

Postby havoc » May 31st, 2012, 8:28 am

DoubleJayAlum wrote:In hindsight, we could probably fairly say that the MVC dropped the ball the last few times it added teams in that we traded major to good sized market teams for small to really small market teams each time. This has, no doubt, impacted the MVC's ability to get better TV deals. Perhaps this is having an impact on the MVC's approach to adding teams this time around?


According to Wikipedia, the last three teams to leave the Valley were Tulsa, West Texas State, and New Mexico State. Tulsa has a metro population of 988,454, West Texas State is in a metro of 226,522, and New Mexico State is in a metro of 209,233. The last three teams to enter the Valley were Evansville, Northern Iowa, and Missouri State. Evansville has a metro of 358,676, Northern Iowa is in a metro of 163,706, and Missouri State is in a metro of 436,712. According to this, no, I wouldn't say it is fair to say the MVC traded good sized market teams for small to really small market teams.
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Re: Conference Realignment - May 1

Postby DoubleJayAlum » May 31st, 2012, 8:35 am

havoc wrote:
DoubleJayAlum wrote:In hindsight, we could probably fairly say that the MVC dropped the ball the last few times it added teams in that we traded major to good sized market teams for small to really small market teams each time. This has, no doubt, impacted the MVC's ability to get better TV deals. Perhaps this is having an impact on the MVC's approach to adding teams this time around?


According to Wikipedia, the last three teams to leave the Valley were Tulsa, West Texas State, and New Mexico State. Tulsa has a metro population of 988,454, West Texas State is in a metro of 226,522, and New Mexico State is in a metro of 209,233. The last three teams to enter the Valley were Evansville, Northern Iowa, and Missouri State. Evansville has a metro of 358,676, Northern Iowa is in a metro of 163,706, and Missouri State is in a metro of 436,712. According to this, no, I wouldn't say it is fair to say the MVC traded good sized market teams for small to really small market teams.

Well, I was really only talking about the last two additions. However, even then West Texas State is certainly not in a good sized market so you are correct there, but Tulsa most certainly is (and has a population that is 3 times the size of the school that replaced it). Perhaps I should have said, in each of the last two attempts, the Valley chose a team from a smaller market than the team that it replaced. Does that make you feel any better?
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Re: Conference Realignment - May 1

Postby goyotes » June 2nd, 2012, 1:09 pm

Looking at this from outside the Valley, a potential split of the football & non-football teams could happen if (and if is the key word) Oakland, IUPUI & IPFW all receive & accept invites to the Horizon. This reduces the Summit League down to 6 teams (after the addition of UNO), 4 of which play football in the MVFC. The Summit then would have to look at other options, including possibly merging with or joining some teams spitting off from another conference for an all sports conference. What would be the likely response of the Valley football teams in such a scenario?
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Re: Conference Realignment - May 1

Postby unipanther99 » June 2nd, 2012, 3:43 pm

goyotes wrote:Looking at this from outside the Valley, a potential split of the football & non-football teams could happen if (and if is the key word) Oakland, IUPUI & IPFW all receive & accept invites to the Horizon. This reduces the Summit League down to 6 teams (after the addition of UNO), 4 of which play football in the MVFC. The Summit then would have to look at other options, including possibly merging with or joining some teams spitting off from another conference for an all sports conference. What would be the likely response of the Valley football teams in such a scenario?


If you are suggesting that Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois St, Indiana St, Missouri St, would leave the current MVC to rescue Western Illinois, South Dakota, South Dakota St, North Dakota St, (and possibly bring along Younstown St. and Nebraska-Omaha) to form an all-sports conference --- the answer would be a definite no.

If, somehow, Creighton, Wichita St, and Bradley left to join some other non-football conference --- which seems to be very unlikely --- then the rest of us might consider adding some MVFC members as replacements. But they would likely be considered along other non-football schools like UW-Milwaukee, Wright St, Murray St, Oral Roberts, etc.
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Re: Conference Realignment - May 1

Postby goyotes » June 2nd, 2012, 5:58 pm

If you are suggesting that Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois St, Indiana St, Missouri St, would leave the current MVC to rescue Western Illinois, South Dakota, South Dakota St, North Dakota St, (and possibly bring along Younstown St. and Nebraska-Omaha) to form an all-sports conference --- the answer would be a definite no.


This wasn't the scenario I had in mind (not that I wouldn't love to see it). I was thinking more along the line of the remaining 6 Summit League members and perhaps 2-4 Big Sky teams ending up in the same all sports conference.
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Re: Conference Realignment - May 1

Postby TheAsianSensation » June 2nd, 2012, 8:06 pm

I see his point...he's suggesting that Valley football suffers attrition and Illinois St, Indiana St, UNI, MSU, and SIU become the only members in Valley football (everyone else scampers for an all-sport conference elsewhere). This means WIU, NDSU, SDSU, and USD leave the football conference for a new conference.

The basis behind it, that's possible: Big Sky is a bloated conference right now. It's possible the WAC poaches a bunch of Big Sky schools, and the Big Sky makes a desperation offer to the XDSUs and WIU to stay afloat.

However, Youngstown St would be a guarantee to stay in MVC football. 6 schools, and that's enough I think. There's really no schools that can make a football-only move into the conference. I could see them trying to create a football-only merger with the OVC in that case. It's also possible that CAA football is on the brink of devastation (discussed before in this thread) and the 5 MVC schools can rescue them.

The key on this one is that no one is ready from MVC football to go FBS. And there's really no FCS conference even worth considering for them to move all sports there.
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Re: Conference Realignment - May 1

Postby MSUDuo » June 2nd, 2012, 10:21 pm

DoubleJayAlum wrote:
havoc wrote:
DoubleJayAlum wrote:In hindsight, we could probably fairly say that the MVC dropped the ball the last few times it added teams in that we traded major to good sized market teams for small to really small market teams each time. This has, no doubt, impacted the MVC's ability to get better TV deals. Perhaps this is having an impact on the MVC's approach to adding teams this time around?


According to Wikipedia, the last three teams to leave the Valley were Tulsa, West Texas State, and New Mexico State. Tulsa has a metro population of 988,454, West Texas State is in a metro of 226,522, and New Mexico State is in a metro of 209,233. The last three teams to enter the Valley were Evansville, Northern Iowa, and Missouri State. Evansville has a metro of 358,676, Northern Iowa is in a metro of 163,706, and Missouri State is in a metro of 436,712. According to this, no, I wouldn't say it is fair to say the MVC traded good sized market teams for small to really small market teams.

Well, I was really only talking about the last two additions. However, even then West Texas State is certainly not in a good sized market so you are correct there, but Tulsa most certainly is (and has a population that is 3 times the size of the school that replaced it). Perhaps I should have said, in each of the last two attempts, the Valley chose a team from a smaller market than the team that it replaced. Does that make you feel any better?


Don't really see the point of this fight and call me crazy, but weren't UNI and UE in the Valley while Tulsa was still here?
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Re: Conference Realignment - May 1

Postby ihsi » June 27th, 2012, 8:43 am

Trying to follow the twitterverse- did the big 4 football conference just sort of screw the Big East? If they did, what holds them together now?
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Re: Conference Realignment - May 1

Postby MVCfans » June 27th, 2012, 11:35 am

ihsi wrote:Trying to follow the twitterverse- did the big 4 football conference just sort of screw the Big East? If they did, what holds them together now?

ESPN reported that Boise State still hasn't officially notified the Mountain West that it is leaving and must do so by July 1 or their penalty to leave increases to 7.5M. The Big East will not be among the top revenue earners in the new 4 team football playoff and there's no AQ anymore, so the value of moving to the Big East has been sigificantly diminished. Plus, their Olympic sports were supposed to go to the WAC and that league is all but dead now. If I'm Boise St, I crawl back to the MWC with my tail between my legs.
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