Ranking The Coaching Jobs

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Re: Ranking The Coaching Jobs

Postby pafan » June 7th, 2012, 8:25 pm

BirdmanBB wrote:What are you smoking?

Marlboro 155s.

Your assertion that my top three schools have recent coaching turnover is wrong, by the way.

IlSU (2012) - previous coach left to be an assistant at SMU
SIU (2012) - previous coach fired
BU (2011) - previous coach fired
MSU (2011) - previous coach left for Tennessee
InSU (2010) - previous coach left to be an assistant at Oregon
CU (2010) - previous coach left for Oregon

Only one of my top three (CU) and two of my top 5 (CU, MSU) are on that list of recent new head coaches.

You smoke Camel?
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Re: Ranking The Coaching Jobs

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Re: Ranking The Coaching Jobs

Postby DoubleJayAlum » June 8th, 2012, 2:53 pm

unipanther99 wrote:The reason I would pick them second is because hiring McDermott made them look like more of a soft landing point for a coach who failed at the BCS level.


You do realize that when Creighton hired Altman, he was in essentially the exact same situation at Kansas State, right?

At the time that Creighton hired McDermott, the national media didn't characterize the move as you did above at all. In fact, many writing about the story at the time gave Creighton kudos for being able to lure a guy away from a BCS school.
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Re: Ranking The Coaching Jobs

Postby DoubleJayAlum » June 8th, 2012, 3:23 pm

PantherSigEp wrote:After getting this far I think I've managed to realize some flaws in my own logic and premise. And in lieu of simply starting over or backtracking let's just try to establish what makes a coaching job attractive (not really in a specific order, except maybe the first one):
1) Money $$$ (it's true for all jobs, this one is no different. The more you can make, the more you want to make it)
2) Opportunity for success (this is where the idea of team does have sway. Although those guys will not be around forever, if you have a strong core of players that is a big advantage in future recruiting if you can step in and be successful right away and sustain that success. I think Ben Jacobson and McDermott at Creighton exemplify this)
3) Current program state (similar to #2 but with a focus on facilities, fan base, overall "prestige", although I would say that particular factor is relatively dulled in the MVC. I'm thinking more along the lines of being offered $1M to be head coach at UNI as opposed to being offered $1 M to be head coach at Duke. That's the "prestige" factor and that is where past success, "program history", etc.. comes into play. Overall I believe this has the greatest impact on how marketable you can make your program to recruits and therefor is HUGE)
4) The Administration (I originally had this in #3 but I feel like it needs its own. Both the University and Athletic Dept administration play a role due to how they have treated coaches in the past, the job security you are given and the amount of flexibility they allow a coach in regards to athletic/recruiting budgeting


I'd prepare a different list:

1) $$$ MONEY $$$ - your salary, but not just your salary - also the salary budget that you have for assistants, administrative staff, graduate assistants, etc.

2) Administrative support - Directly related to #1, but different. Is there a quality marketing department to market your product? How big is the marketing budget? How responsive is the admin to your needs and wants? Is the athletic director easy to get a long with or is he/she a jerk? How big is the recruiting budget? Do you bus or fly to away games? What is the admin's ability fundraise? What sort of flexibility/requirements are there with respect to scheduling? Do you have carte blanche to create your own schedule or do you have to have AD approval? How free are you to run the program the way that you want? How nice are the facilities and how do they compare with your peers in the conference?

3) Fanbase - How big/loyal is the fanbase? Do you play in sold out arenas or in front of a couple of thousand fans? Does the fanbase travel in good numbers to away games, exempt tourneys, the conference tourney and NCAA games making a neutral environment more like a home game or helping to limit the hostility of away games? What is the relevance of the program within the community ("community prestige")- is it the subject of regular discussion or is it an afterthought ? Do the fans support the fundraising efforts? Where does the program rank with respect to campus life? Are students supportive in large numbers or apathetic about the programs existence? Do the students became fans of the program or do they maintain preexisting loyalties to their home state's school?

4) Overall prestige - What is the general feeling about the quality of the job by the other coaches/schools/fans in the conference? Is it widely considered to be one of the best jobs? How does the national media consider the job to be vis-a-vis the other jobs in the conference? Outside of a talent disparity, is it easier to win there or are you facing an uphill battle from the outset? What are the regular expectations that outsiders have of the school - is it expected to compete for championships or is finishing in the top half considered to be a good season?
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Re: Ranking The Coaching Jobs

Postby valleychamp » June 8th, 2012, 3:31 pm

DoubleJayAlum wrote:
unipanther99 wrote:The reason I would pick them second is because hiring McDermott made them look like more of a soft landing point for a coach who failed at the BCS level.


At the time that Creighton hired McDermott, the national media didn't characterize the move as you did above at all. In fact, many writing about the story at the time gave Creighton kudos for being able to lure a guy away from a BCS school.


L O L

Please tell me that you do not sincerely believe this to be the case...
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Re: Ranking The Coaching Jobs

Postby PantherSigEp » June 8th, 2012, 7:21 pm

valleychamp wrote:
DoubleJayAlum wrote:
unipanther99 wrote:The reason I would pick them second is because hiring McDermott made them look like more of a soft landing point for a coach who failed at the BCS level.


At the time that Creighton hired McDermott, the national media didn't characterize the move as you did above at all. In fact, many writing about the story at the time gave Creighton kudos for being able to lure a guy away from a BCS school.


L O L

Please tell me that you do not sincerely believe this to be the case...


I have faith that most of us are smarter than the national media's dribble. We all know Mac wasn't lured away from Iowa State he was simply given the opportunity to leave with some dignity instead of the school firing him and hurting his reputation. Staying was not an option and he was fortunate that he had great option in Creighton open. Frankly the MVC, as a whole, is fortunate that McDermott had that option or else there may be 2 fewer McDermott's in the conference and who knows where CU would be at. It was a big win for MVC Basketball
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Re: Ranking The Coaching Jobs

Postby C0|db|00ded » June 9th, 2012, 3:01 pm

The best job in the Valley is of course Wichita State. This can be evidenced by the quality of employee hired for the top job. Wichita State grabbed the hottest, non-BCS coach in the country. Creighton nabbed a BCS flunkie from one of the worst BCS basketball teams in the country. If it wasn't for lil' wookie catching lightning in a bottle and surprising everybody, daddy wookie would have been exposed.

Wichita State pays the most in the Valley.

Wichita State has the best facilities (training, practice, etc.) in the Valley.

Wichita State has the most resources (private jets, recruiting budget, etc.) in the Valley.

End of Story.


T


...:cool:
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Re: Ranking The Coaching Jobs

Postby CaseyGarrisonforPrez » June 10th, 2012, 9:54 pm

C0|db|00ded wrote:The best job in the Valley is of course Wichita State. This can be evidenced by the quality of employee hired for the top job. Wichita State grabbed the hottest, non-BCS coach in the country. Creighton nabbed a BCS flunkie from one of the worst BCS basketball teams in the country. If it wasn't for lil' wookie catching lightning in a bottle and surprising everybody, daddy wookie would have been exposed.

Wichita State pays the most in the Valley.

Wichita State has the best facilities (training, practice, etc.) in the Valley.

Wichita State has the most resources (private jets, recruiting budget, etc.) in the Valley.

End of Story.


T


...:cool:


So much wrong here.

1. Marshall was not the biggest name when Wichita got him from Winthrop. He had won the Big South multiple times but he was basically a South Carolina Scott Sutton.

2. Iowa State is not and never will be a bad job. Probably top 25-30 job in the country with their fan support. Most desirable job in the state of Iowa. Sorry Drake fans.

3. McDermott was no flunkie. He was on the verge of turning that program around. If he had managed to get Harrison Barnes from Ames High he could have won big there. And ISU was in it with Barnes until the last moment when he chose Roy and UNC.

4. Koch Arena is old and in the bottom half of facilities in the Valley.

5. WSU may have nice resources but bragging about how much they are spending for a guy that made a run in that other tournament combined with a sterling loss in the Valley quarters and a subsequent loss in round one to VCU is...well...it's cool I guess. Production wise Gregg has not really earned it yet. If overpaying and overplaying your resources to the point of excess is something to value then I am glad Missouri State is more prudent and cheap. Most fans of every other school in the Valley would agree with me.
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Re: Ranking The Coaching Jobs

Postby PantherSigEp » June 10th, 2012, 11:38 pm

CaseyGarrisonforPrez wrote:
2. Iowa State is not and never will be a bad job. Probably top 25-30 job in the country with their fan support. Most desirable job in the state of Iowa. Sorry Drake fans.

3. McDermott was no flunkie. He was on the verge of turning that program around. If he had managed to get Harrison Barnes from Ames High he could have won big there. And ISU was in it with Barnes until the last moment when he chose Roy and UNC.

4. Koch Arena is old and in the bottom half of facilities in the Valley.


2. Is Drake supposed to be the top job in Iowa? Because it's probably the bottom one.

3. Only Barnes and those close to him know if he was seriously considering Iowa State. I highly doubt he was though, let's be serious, until this past year they have been in a 3 way dogfight with Iowa and Drake as the states #2 program and still haven't beaten UNI since Mac was running the show. Barnes including them in his final group was simply a gesture of faith to his hometown of Ames.

4. I think Koch is a pretty great place to catch college basketball. Let's be real Casey. Most facilities in this conference are very nice and we should be thankful for that.
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Re: Ranking The Coaching Jobs

Postby shocktheheart » June 11th, 2012, 9:33 am

CaseyGarrisonforPrez wrote:
C0|db|00ded wrote:The best job in the Valley is of course Wichita State. This can be evidenced by the quality of employee hired for the top job. Wichita State grabbed the hottest, non-BCS coach in the country. Creighton nabbed a BCS flunkie from one of the worst BCS basketball teams in the country. If it wasn't for lil' wookie catching lightning in a bottle and surprising everybody, daddy wookie would have been exposed.

Wichita State pays the most in the Valley.

Wichita State has the best facilities (training, practice, etc.) in the Valley.

Wichita State has the most resources (private jets, recruiting budget, etc.) in the Valley.

End of Story.


T


...:cool:


So much wrong here.

1. Marshall was not the biggest name when Wichita got him from Winthrop. He had won the Big South multiple times but he was basically a South Carolina Scott Sutton.

2. Iowa State is not and never will be a bad job. Probably top 25-30 job in the country with their fan support. Most desirable job in the state of Iowa. Sorry Drake fans.

3. McDermott was no flunkie. He was on the verge of turning that program around. If he had managed to get Harrison Barnes from Ames High he could have won big there. And ISU was in it with Barnes until the last moment when he chose Roy and UNC.

4. Koch Arena is old and in the bottom half of facilities in the Valley.

5. WSU may have nice resources but bragging about how much they are spending for a guy that made a run in that other tournament combined with a sterling loss in the Valley quarters and a subsequent loss in round one to VCU is...well...it's cool I guess. Production wise Gregg has not really earned it yet. If overpaying and overplaying your resources to the point of excess is something to value then I am glad Missouri State is more prudent and cheap. Most fans of every other school in the Valley would agree with me.



I agree with most of what you said, but what five teams facilities wise would you rank ahead of Koch?
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Re: Ranking The Coaching Jobs

Postby CaseyGarrisonforPrez » June 11th, 2012, 12:13 pm

The only arenas that I definitively like better than Koch would be Creighton's, JQH Arena, SIU with the recent alterations, and Ford Center at Evansville. Koch is a decent gym but we have some very nice arenas in our league that are pretty new.
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