Missouri State's Jamar Gulley out for 2012-13 season

[tribecalledquest]

The Bears will struggle but are definetly better then ISUb, BU, and SIU just need to catch someone else sleeping.

Based on what objective criteria exactly?

[BEARZ77]

The Bears will struggle but are definetly better then ISUb, BU, and SIU just need to catch someone else sleeping.

Based on what objective criteria exactly?

While I think it's probably pretty close , especially w/o Gulley, I would think the fact we finished ahead of you last year, had more returning firepower, finish ahead of you most years in the league as a matter of routine including 8 of the last 10, and own about a 2:1 winning margin head to head historically might all count as objective measures[ some of less importance than others. What would your objective measures be to dispute it?

Again w/o Gulley it's probably a toss-up, but certainly not a crazy statement.

[tribecalledquest]

The Bears will struggle but are definetly better then ISUb, BU, and SIU just need to catch someone else sleeping.

Based on what objective criteria exactly?

While I think it's probably pretty close , especially w/o Gulley, I would think the fact we finished ahead of you last year, had more returning firepower, finish ahead of you most years in the league as a matter of routine including 8 of the last 10, and own about a 2:1 winning margin head to head historically might all count as objective measures[ some of less importance than others. What would your objective measures be to dispute it?

Again w/o Gulley it's probably a toss-up, but certainly not a crazy statement.

Ok. So Bradley is one team. What about the other three?

In regards to Bradley----with Gulley out do the Bears really have more returning firepower in 2012-13?

I didn't say it was a "crazy statement"...I do think its "crazy" to guarantee that MSU won't finish in the play in game.

[BEARZ77]

I agree, right now I'd pick us 6-8 most likely. Also, got you mixed with a Sycamore fan, so some of my stats probably aren't accurate towards the Braves. I think the middle of the league is such that a 5-6 place finish is possible for alot of teams that also could be 8-10, and we be amongst them right now.Like our young talent, but we are small, inexperienced, and I'm not sure about Lusk yet.

[valleychamp]

Definitively name four teams that MSU is going to finish in front of, Casey. After SIU and maybe Bradley, I think you will be hard pressed to find two more teams that MSU is guaranteed to finish ahead of.

Besides that fact, staying out of the play-in games is a lot more difficult than it sounds. Remember, MSU was losing a tie-breaker away from playing on Thursday in STL even last year.

As was UNI and 3 others, as a matter of fact UNI was a called travel from 7th place.

The Bears will struggle but are definetly better then ISUb, BU, and SIU just need to catch someone else sleeping.

laughable sore-loserness aside, the discussion wasn't about UNI, and nobody from UNI made any guarantees.

I was merely trying to point out how tough it may be to stay out of that play-in round, as evidenced by the fact that a much more talented and experienced Bears team last year was even an eyelash away from playing on Thursday.

You say there are "definitely" better than those three teams. Why? And you say that they "just need to catch someone else sleeping". Who? Who are they going to catch? Its going to be tough, there are a lot of good teams in the Valley this year.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Its going to be tough, there are a lot of good teams in the Valley this year.

Please define "good."

I'm having a hard time predicting how good the MVC will be next year. The league lost two of its best players to transfer (InSU and Drake), including the key piece to a team that many expect to contend for the title (Nik Moore). InSU and WSu lost a ton, although WSu's recruits may help balance that out. The bottom teams (bradley and SIU) will seemingly be really bad again. UNi and Creighton should be solid. I'm not sure I see the conference being much better this year - probably about the same actually.

[valleychamp]

More like, who's not going to be good?

I think you will likely see SIU at the bottom, and probably Bradley right along with them. And even Bradley should be much better than they were last season. After that, I think that every other team is "good". I guarantee you that Creighton, Ill St, UNI, WSU, and maybe even Drake and Evansville all think they they can/will make the NCAA tournament this year.

[TNMSUFAN]

More like, who's not going to be good?

I think you will likely see SIU at the bottom, and probably Bradley right along with them. And even Bradley should be much better than they were last season. After that, I think that every other team is "good". I guarantee you that Creighton, Ill St, UNI, WSU, and maybe even Drake and Evansville all think they they can/will make the NCAA tournament this year.

I will give you CU, ISU(r) and UNI but after that there are a lot of questions marks...and for the record I think the Valley will be down some after those teams and it will be a mess in the standings 4-10.

Losing Gulley was a big blow for us but it is a position we have some experience with Pickens and Scheer able to play it. I really like our new guys just like everyone else likes theirs...we will find out in Nov.

[DoubleJayAlum]

More like, who's not going to be good?

I think you will likely see SIU at the bottom, and probably Bradley right along with them. And even Bradley should be much better than they were last season. After that, I think that every other team is "good". I guarantee you that Creighton, Ill St, UNI, WSU, and maybe even Drake and Evansville all think they they can/will make the NCAA tournament this year.

No offense, but you didn't really answer my question. I'll ask again: Please define "good."

[valleychamp]

I don't know, how would you like to define it? I would define it as a team that contends for the NCAA's or an NIT bid, maybe wins 20+ games, RPI under 100 (or in that neighborhood), and is capable of beating any team on a given night.

Without looking at the actual math, schedules, ect...I think we have several teams that are capable of doing those things next year.