Official 2012-13 MVCfans.com prediction - 5th Place

[BirdmanBB]

Position by position matchups might impact the two times they play each other, but if we're talking about the league race it's different.

And that is why WSU fans are excited. On paper we match up well with every team in the Valley. The problem is that no one has seen these horses in action under Marshall and there is a high liklihood of error in evaluation. Couple that with the fact that we, as fans, are all overly enamoured with our own players and tend to discount the competition, and WSU is a real quagmeyer. Drake is also in that category where as UNI, CU and ISUr are all known and talented across the board.

OTOH, I think many have forgotten how superior CU and WSU were to the rest of the Valley last year. Five teams have third place stuck in their heads and expect to be improved, when in actuality 6 teams were incapable of finishing over .500 despite a good team on paper. Why should I believe that ISUr is any better than a 9-9 club after losing their FOY PG and HC? Why will UNI win more than they lose since they brought in no new starters?

Food for thought.

For starters, ISUr did not lose the FOY PG, because he was not FOY (Seth Tuttle was). As for the head coach goes, he may have had a great repor with the players, but Jank was a terrible in game coach. I am looking forward to someone who should be more strategic with adjustments and such rather than throw a basketball out there and let them "hoop it up" as our former PG described it. Rather than fret on what ISU is losing, you may want to look at what they are bringing back. It's not like these guys are going to get worse next year. We just have a PG to replace and we think we found someone in Kaza Keane who may not be the scorer Moore was, but he will have the court vision (is taller) and a much, much better defender.

This team, minus Moore will coming back off after putting a beating on UNI, taking out a ranked and "superior" WSU team and taking a "superior" CU team into OT in the valley championship when it was thought that they had no chance whatsoever. They then went on to Ole Miss in the NIT where they rarely lose a home game and beat them and should have beaten Stanford who ended up winning the NIT if it werent for the ref letting their PG take a timeout with the ball as he was jumping out of bounds.

I'm not worried about losing what Moore brought to the table from a scoring standpoint because we still have Tyler Brown (who is still on a 9 or so straight 3pt streak), Jackie Carmichael, John WIlkins, Jon Ekey and Bryant Allen. We should have the best depth out of any team in the valley, at least in the post. Defensively, we should be one of the better, if not best teams in the valley next year, but I also feel we will have plenty of scorers to replace what Nic brought after another off season to improve themselves.

WSU on the other hand is replacing 5 starters who do not have the same experience their predecessors had, some of which have not played any valley ball yet. Who is going to be WSU's "go to" guy? No one knows. On paper, the roster looks good, but no one will really know what WSU has until tipoff. ISU had arguably one of the best PG recruits in the valley a few years back in Terry Johnson, but he wasn't worth a lick in the college game. Same thing could happen to WSU and all of their stud recruits. At least ISU will be returning proven guys who have been there and done it.

oh wait....didn't CU just lose a stud PG to graduation? No one seems to be knocking them down a peg or two for losing their floor general. I just don't get all the redbird criticism for losing Moore.

[DoubleJayAlum]

We should have the best depth out of any team in the valley, at least in the post.

Birdman,I agree with almost everything you said, but I think you are getting a bit carried away with the quote above. I could go for "among the best", but think you are stretching it otherwise.

[Wufan]

Position by position matchups might impact the two times they play each other, but if we're talking about the league race it's different.

And that is why WSU fans are excited. On paper we match up well with every team in the Valley. The problem is that no one has seen these horses in action under Marshall and there is a high liklihood of error in evaluation. Couple that with the fact that we, as fans, are all overly enamoured with our own players and tend to discount the competition, and WSU is a real quagmeyer. Drake is also in that category where as UNI, CU and ISUr are all known and talented across the board.

OTOH, I think many have forgotten how superior CU and WSU were to the rest of the Valley last year. Five teams have third place stuck in their heads and expect to be improved, when in actuality 6 teams were incapable of finishing over .500 despite a good team on paper. Why should I believe that ISUr is any better than a 9-9 club after losing their FOY PG and HC? Why will UNI win more than they lose since they brought in no new starters?

Food for thought.

For starters, ISUr did not lose the FOY PG, because he was not FOY (Seth Tuttle was). As for the head coach goes, he may have had a great repor with the players, but Jank was a terrible in game coach. I am looking forward to someone who should be more strategic with adjustments and such rather than throw a basketball out there and let them "hoop it up" as our former PG described it. Rather than fret on what ISU is losing, you may want to look at what they are bringing back. It's not like these guys are going to get worse next year. We just have a PG to replace and we think we found someone in Kaza Keane who may not be the scorer Moore was, but he will have the court vision (is taller) and a much, much better defender.

This team, minus Moore will coming back off after putting a beating on UNI, taking out a ranked and "superior" WSU team and taking a "superior" CU team into OT in the valley championship when it was thought that they had no chance whatsoever. They then went on to Ole Miss in the NIT where they rarely lose a home game and beat them and should have beaten Stanford who ended up winning the NIT if it werent for the ref letting their PG take a timeout with the ball as he was jumping out of bounds.

I'm not worried about losing what Moore brought to the table from a scoring standpoint because we still have Tyler Brown (who is still on a 9 or so straight 3pt streak), Jackie Carmichael, John WIlkins, Jon Ekey and Bryant Allen. We should have the best depth out of any team in the valley, at least in the post. Defensively, we should be one of the better, if not best teams in the valley next year, but I also feel we will have plenty of scorers to replace what Nic brought after another off season to improve themselves.

WSU on the other hand is replacing 5 starters who do not have the same experience their predecessors had, some of which have not played any valley ball yet. Who is going to be WSU's "go to" guy? No one knows. On paper, the roster looks good, but no one will really know what WSU has until tipoff. ISU had arguably one of the best PG recruits in the valley a few years back in Terry Johnson, but he wasn't worth a lick in the college game. Same thing could happen to WSU and all of their stud recruits. At least ISU will be returning proven guys who have been there and done it.

oh wait....didn't CU just lose a stud PG to graduation? No one seems to be knocking them down a peg or two for losing their floor general. I just don't get all the redbird criticism for losing Moore.

I'm sorry you took my comment personally, or as "criticism" or "knocking [you] down a peg." All I did was state facts (should have said all freshman PG), and pose a question for thought. Indiana State went from bottom dweller to 3rd place, returned nearly their whole team and finished in the play-in round. The only difference I see between what happened to In St and this years Ill St is that the Sycamores won St Louis and then returned their HC and freshman PG.

I don't believe that Ill St will fall like In St this year, but it's not unheard of. BTW, I really like what the Redbirds bring to the table this year. The four returning starters are top notch!

[Red]

I would like to see Evansville do well this year but I don't know if they have the depth or size.

[Wufan]

I would like to see Evansville do well this year but I don't know if they have the depth or size.

I like Evansville's guards a lot. There is also a lot of potential in the bigs, but the forwards will still be young and small compared to the rest of the league. The Aces have an intriguing team and a large improvement over last year is not out of the question.

[LMS]

I would like to see Evansville do well this year but I don't know if they have the depth or size.

I like Evansville's guards a lot. There is also a lot of potential in the bigs, but the forwards will still be young and small compared to the rest of the league. The Aces have an intriguing team and a large improvement over last year is not out of the question.

I don't know if a large improvement is likely considering they were the three seed in St Louis.

[MVCfans]

With just over 50% of the vote, our users have selected Evansville as the likely 5th place finisher in the Valley.

[Wufan]

I would like to see Evansville do well this year but I don't know if they have the depth or size.

I like Evansville's guards a lot. There is also a lot of potential in the bigs, but the forwards will still be young and small compared to the rest of the league. The Aces have an intriguing team and a large improvement over last year is not out of the question.

I don't know if a large improvement is likely considering they were the three seed in St Louis.

Large improvement from 9-9 is not out of the question. I don't think 9-9 will get the three seed (or four seed for that matter) this year.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Wsu is not Evansville. Wsu may have lost experience, but there has been an upgrade in talent level.

I'm not touching the Evansville part, but the remainder of your quote seems to beg credibility just a bit. You lost all-conference caliber players in Ragland, Stutz and Murry. To say that the guys coming in will be more talented from day one would appear to be pretty optimistic to say the least; and, if true, would leave WSU with no excuses if it doesn't win the league title outright.

As to the poll in this thread, I am surprised it is this close.

Without a doubt. If WSU has better talent than last year, then we should be voting them first. I voted for WSU to finish fifth just because I think the Aces will finish higher than that, and apparently there are others who think the same.

You are so right Ace Card. Shockers will check in around 9th, give or take a notch.

[shock]

RDR,you honestly think WSU is one of the worst teams in the NCAA, will be good enough to barely beat a d2 school, thus making Marshall a failure? You honestly believe Marshall is starting over at square one, that he has built a team that cannot compete at the D1 level? You really believe all of the NBA talent Marshall has brought in will not mesh, even though two of the biggest signings are basically best friends? If you are right, FVV will start, EW will start, JM will start, and Gregg will be forced to pull the redshirts of the Derail because the rest of the team is too stupid to grasp the concept of putting the ball in the hoop. You honestly, deep down inside, with out a shadow of a doubt, feel that way? Of you do, I hope to God, you don't have season tickets, because some I know some six year olds more deserving of an opportunity to watch the shocks than you. If you really don't feel that way, you need to find some joy in life. I don't know who pooped in your apple pie, but get over it.