Evansville to the Horizon

[TheAsianSensation]

Interesting, could be University of Soulthern Indiana in Evansville: http://www.d2messageboard.com/showthread.php?49006-Rumor-USI-in-preliminary-talks-with-Horizon-League

Horizon has already turned down one school (Northern Kentucky) who wanted to move up a division and join the Horizon. They don't want start-ups, and if they did, NKU may actually be the top prize in DII right now.

[TheAsianSensation]

I feel like slapping anyone who thinks Murray State is a good idea. Look at that university profile, and the profiles of the MVC members. It's not even close.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'd be surprised if New Mexico St and Denver and Air Force haven't contacted Elgin by now, not the other way around. However, all my thinking on that front was bringing in 2 of them as western travel partners. If it's just one spot to fill, it's a lot tougher to take a geographical outlier.

Will MIlwaukee leave their own rivals behind? And remember, they'd be coming from the conference doing the raiding - it's likely they're part of the discussions to bring the new schools in - that would be a nasty double-cross. In fact, I highly doubt any Horizon school leaves if they poach E'ville.

Time to look at Oral Bob. When they joined the Southland, UTSA, UTA, and Texas St were still a part of the league (IIRC).

[TheAsianSensation]

I wonder is it possible that if Evansville left the MVC, the Valley would just stay at nine and not add another school? A league of nine schools would each get a larger slice of the pie?

Very little chance. If you get poached again in the future and go down to 7 or 8 schools, then what? We saw what happened to Big East football because they maintained an 8-team membership for a few years.

Security in numbers.

[Ali]

North Dakota St would be fine by me.

[shockem]

If they're gonna bolt they better do it before Colt Ryan graduates. He's about all they have going right now.

[shock]

What about DePaul or Marquette?

[RoyalShock]

I feel like slapping anyone who thinks Murray State is a good idea. Look at that university profile, and the profiles of the MVC members. It's not even close.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'd be surprised if New Mexico St and Denver and Air Force haven't contacted Elgin by now, not the other way around. However, all my thinking on that front was bringing in 2 of them as western travel partners. If it's just one spot to fill, it's a lot tougher to take a geographical outlier.

Will MIlwaukee leave their own rivals behind? And remember, they'd be coming from the conference doing the raiding - it's likely they're part of the discussions to bring the new schools in - that would be a nasty double-cross. In fact, I highly doubt any Horizon school leaves if they poach E'ville.

Time to look at Oral Bob. When they joined the Southland, UTSA, UTA, and Texas St were still a part of the league (IIRC).

Then slap me, I guess. I fail to see what's wrong with Murray State's profile. I don't want to replace UE with a similar program, which is what ORU is. They are 4th-fiddle in their own city. Murray State may not bring a large TV market (does UE really bring much of the Evansville market? Or ORU much of the Tulsa market? I doubt it.), but they have over 10k undergrads and a FCS football program that could easily move into the MVFC.

Let me pose this question. For the sake of argument, let's say UNI and UE are not in the Valley and you had to choose to bring only one of them in. Which do you pick? For me, it's a no-brainer for UNI, which has a similar profile to Murray State.

I just don't see NMSU or UW-Mil wanting into the Valley for various reasons. And I don't want ORU or Denver.

But it sounds like this is a futile discussion anyway, unless UE's AD is lying.

[TheAsianSensation]

My anti-Murray argument:

1) Yes, other schools do not bring in big TV markets, but Evansville, Des Moines, Bloomington...at least they're cities of some sort. Not big, but relatively big fish in medium to small ponds. I'd rather have schools that are relevant fish in medium ponds like Omaha, Wichita, Peoria, Des Moines, et al. Murray St is a fish in a puddle, not a pond. There's no population value there.

2) According to what I saw, I had Murray at 9k undergraduates, a bit over 10k total. Among public schools, they'd be behind all the other Valley publics by a non-trivial amount, although not by a crippling amount.

Simiarly, with budgets, it looks like they'd enter near the bottom of the MVC. Again, not crippling, but they're near the bottom. Usually you'd like to add teams that add more to the average, not subtract from it.

Also, Murray State is at the top, or near, of the OVC in budgets. They go from big dog to small dog. That's a tough transition to make.

3) Competitive balance - this is the one that worries me. The OVC is well below the MVC. They've spent their time beating the OVC up. Their following, their fan base, everything is built on top of this dominance. So when you move up in difficulty, you run the risk of losing some of your value by starting to lose. All those NCAA tourney shares you gobble up over the years become less and less rare. Maybe you end up with 90% of your usual attendance because that 10% gets turned off by losing. You get nickeled and dimed here and there. They lose all of their well-established rivalries in Kentucky. Fans are more interested in a game against Morehead State than Drake (remember, their perspective). Local interest is tougher to generate when your conference mates are in Illinois and Missouri* instead of more local areas like Kentucky and Tennessee. People in Kentucky associate more eastern and southern, the MVC is foreign land to them.

*I am aware SEMO and SIUE are in the OVC, but they're the geographic outliers and the teams Murray cares least about

Oral Bob suffered the same thing in the Summit but could lean back on market/location. Plus they wouldn't be giving up any rivalries. Murray would.

Maybe Murray State would become Northern Iowa over the course of 20-30 years. That's fine. But this conference doesn't need another UNI (no offense). It needs something greater. Something signature. Something that no-doubt provides immediate and significant value. There are schools that can offer the same on-field value Murray does while offering off-field upside elsewhere.


As for the hypo, if Murray and UNI were both free agents, and Murray's value wasn't tied to its geographic rivals, then it's be a reasonably close decision, although still easily in UNI's favor, IMO.

[Aces44]

If they're gonna bolt they better do it before Colt Ryan graduates. He's about all they have going right now.

Every word in this sentence is inaccurate.

[agrinut]

If they're gonna bolt they better do it before Colt Ryan graduates. He's about all they have going right now.

Every word in this sentence is inaccurate.

This will seem cold blooded but I do not believe UE has any place in the league as it stands now. They bring nothing in market share or resources and if USI does infact move up to D1 they will put UE to shame in resources and support.