ORU discussing membership with MVC

[jwa123]

ValleyChamp, to answer your last question, NO ONE.

[Bluejay09Bear06]

Who in this conference has been of more "value" (both publicity-wise and monetarily) to this conference than UNI in that span?

It sounds like the issue you have is the formula, and not the results. I think there's also a bit of confusion here. I don't necessarily mean value to conference in terms of what the school has brought to the conference so far. What I really mean is, from the outside looking in, who would other conferences want from this conference? UNI's basketball success is the best thing about them, but that ranks a distant third on what conferences are looking for. It's all about money. If you have the support and you draw in the fans, success will follow, in their eyes. Personally, I hate it. I wish it was all about success on the court (or field), but it isn't. Not even close.

[jwa123]

There are a lot of MAC fans who have voiced support to UNI in the MAC.

[Bluejay09Bear06]

There are a lot of MAC fans who have voiced support to UNI in the MAC.

And as we all know, message board posters drive the bus when it comes to conference realignment.

[valleychamp]

Who in this conference has been of more "value" (both publicity-wise and monetarily) to this conference than UNI in that span?

It sounds like the issue you have is the formula, and not the results. I think there's also a bit of confusion here. I don't necessarily mean value to conference in terms of what the school has brought to the conference so far. What I really mean is, from the outside looking in, who would other conferences want from this conference? UNI's basketball success is the best thing about them, but that ranks a distant third on what conferences are looking for. It's all about money. If you have the support and you draw in the fans, success will follow, in their eyes. Personally, I hate it. I wish it was all about success on the court (or field), but it isn't. Not even close.

Basketball success= Money.

[Bluejay09Bear06]

Basketball success= Money.

But basketball success without the necessary supporting infrastructure (i.e., institutional support, fan support, attendance, and a large media market) does not appear on conference radar screens because it is just as likely to be statistical noise than anything else. That's why you see conferences looking for the ingredients for sustainable success rather than just looking at the W-L column. A10 picked off Butler and VCU because they came up big in all three areas I identified. If Butler was located in Casper, Wyoming, and drew a couple thousand fans to games, they wouldn't be in A10. And you can take that to the bank.

[jwa123]

There are a lot of MAC fans who have voiced support to UNI in the MAC.

And as we all know, message board posters drive the bus when it comes to conference realignment.

I agree. Not saying it does over on the MAC forum anymore than on ours. However, you stated that UNI was bottom 3 material. My only point is that some from the outside looking in think UNI could be an attractive addition to their conference.

If this is a bball conference, which it is, my only point is that UNI has more than held up there end of the bargain more than some others in our conference. NO - I didn't go to UNI or have anyone in my family who has ever gone there. I just respect what they have accomplished and come game day I hate them.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Who in this conference has been of more "value" (both publicity-wise and monetarily) to this conference than UNI in that span?

Okay, I'll bite.

First we'll talk about the money side of your statement.

It is without question that UNI has had its best ever success in basketball since 2004. In the ten year span you outline, UNI has 5 appearances all coming in 2004 or after (although it may be worth pointing out that the coach that earned three of those bids is now the coach at Creighton). In that same period, UNI has two NCAA tournament wins.

In the last 10 years, Creighton has 5 tourney appearances and two NCAA wins as well. On top of that, since you want to discuss monetary figures, I'd add that Creighton almost universally has the most or second most fans in St Louis, most of which buy all session ticket passes. Contrast the revenue Creighton has generated for the conference via tourney ticket sales to UNI's and they aren't even in the same stratosphere. Then, multiply that tremendous discrepancy by ten to reflect the fact that Creighton has brought huge crowds down there for all of the last ten years. Since that conference tourney ticket money goes to the MVC is spread throughout the conference, I'd suggest that Creighton has contributed more from a monetary perspective.

[Of course, limiting the time period to the last decade is pretty beneficial in skewing the results UNI's way. Make it eleven years and Creighton has another NCAA appearance. Make it 12 and there are two more, start with Y2k and there are three more for Creighton, but we'll stick to your arbitrary period for now. ]

Switching the issue to "publicity-wise" to use your words---

There is no doubt that UNI's win over Kansas was great for the conference. However, I'd argue that Doug making first team all american last year and being a preseason all american this year in every single publication/website/blog that discusses college basketball at a bare bones minimum offsets the attention UNI received. Add to that the publicity garnered by playing UNC last year, Creighton's preseason rankings this year (highest for any MVC conference member since about 1981!!!) and the corresponding "publicity-wise" attention such rankings bring nationally and I'd say the scale tips toward Creighton's side. I'd also add that Creighton currently has two players in the NBA, thereby generating a bit more attention and providing all MVC schools with a counter to the "you have to play in a BCS conference to make the league" recruiting pitch that is often used against us. UNI has no NBA players.

[TheAsianSensation]

As would Bradley. If we're talking all sports, I'd rank Drake over Bradley

Be objective here- if you were a conference commissioner and you got to cherry pick MVC teams to add value to your league who are you taking Bradley or Drake? That's the easiest question ever to answer.

Drake is a reasonable answer to this question. Actually the location may be a factor (i.e., Drake is isolated a bit and BU has to deal with competition from Chicago, St Louis, and Indy schools to their up, down, left, and right), so on the surface Bradley has more institutional value but Drake has more strategic value.

[TheAsianSensation]

Also, laughing at the attempts to make a blanket ranking of the schools. Different conferences look for different things in their schools. ISU red matters a lot more to the MAC than to the A-10. Creighton and Wichita matter everywhere. UNI matters to the MAC but seemingly no one else. Drake and Bradley offer more value to the A-10 than they would to almost any other type of conference out there. UE would be infinitely more valuable to the Horizon than the Iowa or MIssouri schools.

In short, all someone has to do is change the frame of reference for your rankings to be wrong, so don't bother.