Catholic Basketball League

[DUBulldog]

I guess when Creighton sneezes, the rest of the MVC catches a cold.

I am blown away by the meeting. In some ways this has to be unprecedented - there is only speculation (no confirmation) that a single team in a conference may be leaving, yet the remainder of the conference is calling meetings, etc. for that one team.

With all the turmoil regarding movement of teams to different conferences, I'm happy that the MVC is being proactive, rather than reactive.

I get what you are saying, but proactive would have been meeting on this issue quite some time ago. We've only been talking about realignment for about 3 years now.

I agree with you there. I guess we don't know whether the MVC presidents have previously discussed these issues. If they haven't been discussing it for a while, then their heads are in the sand. Unfortunately, it also wouldn't surprise me.

[LJay]

Stolen from the Biliken board, here are the 2010 figures for what the proposed members of this conference spent on their BB programs.

Marquette 10,306,508
Georgetown 7,405,214
Villanova 5,959,531
Seton Hall 5,200,805
St. Johns 4,729,555
Providence 4,637,423
Creighton 4,036,610
Xavier 3,938,466
Dayton 3,401,333
DePaul 3,257,309
Saint Louis 3,105,150
Butler 1,729,754

.

58 $4,771,088 Creighton
80 $3,798,648 Wichita State
98 $2,931,281 Bradley
129 $2,138,770 Northern Iowa
133 $2,067,844 Drake
136 $2,047,843 Southern Illinois
137 $2,047,005 Evansville Aces
141 $1,991,617 Illinois State
168 $1,683,601 Missouri State
200 $1,445,143 Indiana State

This is why Creighton would bolt immediately if offered. "Like minded schools" references more than Catholicism. After the "Black years" (aka the Rick Johnson era) CU was seriously looking at gutting athletics. Instead, they manned up and upped the commitment and 20 years of commitment has us to this point.

[jaybydna]

Stolen from the Biliken board, here are the 2010 figures for what the proposed members of this conference spent on their BB programs.

Marquette 10,306,508
Georgetown 7,405,214
Villanova 5,959,531
Seton Hall 5,200,805
St. Johns 4,729,555
Providence 4,637,423
Creighton 4,036,610
Xavier 3,938,466
Dayton 3,401,333
DePaul 3,257,309
Saint Louis 3,105,150
Butler 1,729,754

.

58 $4,771,088 Creighton
80 $3,798,648 Wichita State
98 $2,931,281 Bradley
129 $2,138,770 Northern Iowa
133 $2,067,844 Drake
136 $2,047,843 Southern Illinois
137 $2,047,005 Evansville Aces
141 $1,991,617 Illinois State
168 $1,683,601 Missouri State
200 $1,445,143 Indiana State

This is why Creighton would bolt immediately if offered. "Like minded schools" references more than Catholicism. After the "Black years" (aka the Rick Johnson era) CU was seriously looking at gutting athletics. Instead, they manned up and upped the commitment and 20 years of commitment has us to this point.

Illustration: CU is defending tourney champs in MBb, Wbb, msoc, baseball, and volleyball. The investment is working.

[saluki762]

my post was not questioning Creightons current commitment. It was asking would they step up the extra couple of million it is going to take to be at the top of the new conference and compete with Marquette and Georgetown or will they be just another middle of the road team in the new conference. I wonder the same thing about my alma mater SLU. If they aren't willing to step up, they end up like Depaul and becoming in the new conference a perennial bottom feeder.

If the commitment is there, you jump at the chance. If it isn't, you are better off at the top of the MVC.

[iowactor]

my post was not questioning Creightons current commitment. It was asking would they step up the extra couple of million it is going to take to be at the top of the new conference and compete with Marquette and Georgetown or will they be just another middle of the road team in the new conference. I wonder the same thing about my alma mater SLU. If they aren't willing to step up, they end up like Depaul and becoming in the new conference a perennial bottom feeder.

If the commitment is there, you jump at the chance. If it isn't, you are better off at the top of the MVC.

I think the analysis must be more nuanced than simply, "Will Creighton spend more money?" For instance, what must CU spend more money on? Facilities? We were #6 in the nation in MBB attendance last year, and the CenturyLink deal is beneficial for the school and the city for years to come. We have one of the best college soccer venues in the country (#4 in attendance). TDAmeritrade is home to the CWS and the Jays (#10 in attendance). We recently built Sokol Arena, a prime facility for volleyball and women's basketball. We have a new practice facility for MBB/WBB forthcoming.
Is it spending money on quality coaches? Our soccer coach left North Carolina/ACC and has guided CU to two straight College Cups (five straight for Bolowich). Our WBB coach is about to set the school record for wins. McDermott is a proven winner in the MVC, and my guess is that his years at Iowa State will help him face the pressure of higher competition.
Is it more money on administration? We've had the same AD since 1994, and he was at CU for years before rising to that position. So, where should we spend more money? Travel? Advertising? Recruiting? I'd hope the additional NCAA units would offset any of those costs, right? The reason Creighton is so attractive is because we've collaborated/invested/partnered/strategized to build an exciting athletics program that feels like a part of the university and not a silo to it.

[Drakey]

I agree with all yousay Iowactor. Is there some reason the same thing could not be done at Drake? The schools and Cities seem very similar to me. We do have the problem of iowa State Basketball 30 miles away, but everything else seems similar.

[saluki762]

my post was not questioning Creightons current commitment. It was asking would they step up the extra couple of million it is going to take to be at the top of the new conference and compete with Marquette and Georgetown or will they be just another middle of the road team in the new conference. I wonder the same thing about my alma mater SLU. If they aren't willing to step up, they end up like Depaul and becoming in the new conference a perennial bottom feeder.

If the commitment is there, you jump at the chance. If it isn't, you are better off at the top of the MVC.

I think the analysis must be more nuanced than simply, "Will Creighton spend more money?" For instance, what must CU spend more money on? Facilities? We were #6 in the nation in MBB attendance last year, and the CenturyLink deal is beneficial for the school and the city for years to come. We have one of the best college soccer venues in the country (#4 in attendance). TDAmeritrade is home to the CWS and the Jays (#10 in attendance). We recently built Sokol Arena, a prime facility for volleyball and women's basketball. We have a new practice facility for MBB/WBB forthcoming.
Is it spending money on quality coaches? Our soccer coach left North Carolina/ACC and has guided CU to two straight College Cups (five straight for Bolowich). Our WBB coach is about to set the school record for wins. McDermott is a proven winner in the MVC, and my guess is that his years at Iowa State will help him face the pressure of higher competition.
Is it more money on administration? We've had the same AD since 1994, and he was at CU for years before rising to that position. So, where should we spend more money? Travel? Advertising? Recruiting? I'd hope the additional NCAA units would offset any of those costs, right? The reason Creighton is so attractive is because we've collaborated/invested/partnered/strategized to build an exciting athletics program that feels like a part of the university and not a silo to it.

Creighton will have to spend more money. The figures I posted were not athletic budgets but basketball budgets. Your soccer, volleyball and other results/spending mean nothing in this discussion because it is all about basketball. Creighton's spending has gotten it exactly 2 NCAA tourney wins in the last 10 years. Only 1 NCAA tourney appearance in the last 5 years and it took an NCAA 1st team all-american to do that. All this when playing in the MVC and having the highest basketball budget in the conference. You will not be competing on a daily basis with the SIU's, ISU Blue's, Evansville's and Bradley's of the previous 5 years. You will be competing against the Marquette's, Georgetown's, and Xavier's of the basketball world.

As a SLU alum, I think Creighton and SLU both need to jump at the chance if offered. I think it is a once in a lifetime chance for the 2 programs. That said, if they wish to compete at the highest level, I think it is a bad idea to step up and not increase their basketball spending by at least 100%.

I know that seven years ago, I heard so many proclamations by Depaul fans about the great heights their BB team was going to reach by leaving Conference USA for the Big East. They have had exactly zero NCAA appearances since and have gone 22-82 in the conference. Their spending on BB pales in comparison to their conference mates and the results reflect that.

[iowactor]

I agree with all yousay Iowactor. Is there some reason the same thing could not be done at Drake? The schools and Cities seem very similar to me. We do have the problem of iowa State Basketball 30 miles away, but everything else seems similar.

Drakey, there is no doubt that Drake could be the darlings of Des Moines. Some would argue that the state's allegiances are too divided, but I don't think that is insurmountable. Besides, the Bulldogs have the advantage of being in the best/biggest city, and Wells Fargo would love to have you as a major tenant if you could draw the numbers. But this isn't about one thing, but a confluence of investment in infrastructure, coaching, and a bit of luck.
CU doesn't get an invite if Dana Altman isn't wooed from Kansas State and builds a consistent winner for 15 years. CU doesn't get an invite if the city doesn't finance a new multi-purpose facility directly east of CU's campus. What if Keno Davis stayed and had several more winning seasons? What if you made a few more deeper runs in the NCAAs? Would we be talking about Drake and not Butler? There is also luck. Currently, getting Doug McDermott--a legitimate Naismith candidate--was luck. But CU helped make that luck by going after Greg who was--most likely--on his way out of ISU.

[musiccitybulldog]

Drakey, while in no means a formal marketing study. The last several years while attending the MVC tournament I have been invited by several large groups of Creighton fans to join them for refreshments after the games at the hotel.
Being curious of the large crowds at Creighton games, I asked them the reason. Most reply "it's fun" and there is nothing else to do. Granted that could be the reponse at many sites in the Valley.
Most of the folks I talked to didn't attend Creighton for education, no relatives did either. Most live in the area, and have for years. Just enjoy going to the games because they "have fun". I asked if the winning is a main factor and most answered, no, although that makes the experience "fun" also.
This "having fun" is enough to draw these 50-60 year old people in large groups of friends of 15-20 people to go to games, going for dinner and fun in Omaha, and travel to St. Louis at the end of the season.
I have no idea of pre or during season media/billboard advertising in the area.
Obviously the Creighton and Omaha experience is doing something right for these folks to experience this much "fun" to invest time and money to attend.

[getreal4]

Is there some reason the same thing could not be done at Drake? The schools and Cities seem very similar to me.

Major difference in administrations and alumni. Creighton Admin appears to be more aggressive in pushing forward than Drake. Coaches salaries, basketball budget, facilities, etc. In fairness, Creighton does have a bigger financial base to draw from than Drake.

IMO Drake has always seemed to have "lets wait until the crisis happens management style". And after the crisis very, very slow decision making.