Catholic Basketball League

[iowactor]

my post was not questioning Creightons current commitment. It was asking would they step up the extra couple of million it is going to take to be at the top of the new conference and compete with Marquette and Georgetown or will they be just another middle of the road team in the new conference. I wonder the same thing about my alma mater SLU. If they aren't willing to step up, they end up like Depaul and becoming in the new conference a perennial bottom feeder.

If the commitment is there, you jump at the chance. If it isn't, you are better off at the top of the MVC.

I think the analysis must be more nuanced than simply, "Will Creighton spend more money?" For instance, what must CU spend more money on? Facilities? We were #6 in the nation in MBB attendance last year, and the CenturyLink deal is beneficial for the school and the city for years to come. We have one of the best college soccer venues in the country (#4 in attendance). TDAmeritrade is home to the CWS and the Jays (#10 in attendance). We recently built Sokol Arena, a prime facility for volleyball and women's basketball. We have a new practice facility for MBB/WBB forthcoming.
Is it spending money on quality coaches? Our soccer coach left North Carolina/ACC and has guided CU to two straight College Cups (five straight for Bolowich). Our WBB coach is about to set the school record for wins. McDermott is a proven winner in the MVC, and my guess is that his years at Iowa State will help him face the pressure of higher competition.
Is it more money on administration? We've had the same AD since 1994, and he was at CU for years before rising to that position. So, where should we spend more money? Travel? Advertising? Recruiting? I'd hope the additional NCAA units would offset any of those costs, right? The reason Creighton is so attractive is because we've collaborated/invested/partnered/strategized to build an exciting athletics program that feels like a part of the university and not a silo to it.

Creighton will have to spend more money. The figures I posted were not athletic budgets but basketball budgets. Your soccer, volleyball and other results/spending mean nothing in this discussion because it is all about basketball. Creighton's spending has gotten it exactly 2 NCAA tourney wins in the last 10 years. Only 1 NCAA tourney appearance in the last 5 years and it took an NCAA 1st team all-american to do that. All this when playing in the MVC and having the highest basketball budget in the conference. You will not be competing on a daily basis with the SIU's, ISU Blue's, Evansville's and Bradley's of the previous 5 years. You will be competing against the Marquette's, Georgetown's, and Xavier's of the basketball world.

As a SLU alum, I think Creighton and SLU both need to jump at the chance if offered. I think it is a once in a lifetime chance for the 2 programs. That said, if they wish to compete at the highest level, I think it is a bad idea to step up and not increase their basketball spending by at least 100%.

I know that seven years ago, I heard so many proclamations by Depaul fans about the great heights their BB team was going to reach by leaving Conference USA for the Big East. They have had exactly zero NCAA appearances since and have gone 22-82 in the conference. Their spending on BB pales in comparison to their conference mates and the results reflect that.

Again, you fail to identify *one* thing Creighton should spend more money on to win in MBB. The reason I included the specifics regarding the other major programs was to illustrate both the financial commitment of the school and the health of all our major sports. In reguards to Increasing NCAA wins, the new league will help attract student-athletes who want to consistently play major competition in the largest TV markets. Tempered by competition, this prepares CU to go deeper in the tournament. Of course, we will no longer expect to go 14-4 and win the conference tournament every two years or so.
I can see that we'd have to increase spending on asst. coaches for both the added cost of retention and--I'm guessing--improved scouting and recruiting. But I don't see the major investment you are speaking about. Perhaps it's the economics of running a team in Omaha and not DC. But I don't see the costs not being offset by the added revenue.

[C0|db|00ded]

Ask Depaul how the transition from Great Midwest to Conference USA to Big East has gone.

Another great example. Why fix something that isn't broke?

I have been hearing about the great catholic conference since I enrolled at SLU in 1996. It has great potential but it will backfire for several schools. A lot having to do with finances and commitment to athletics.

Stolen from the Biliken board, here are the 2010 figures for what the proposed members of this conference spent on their BB programs.

Marquette 10,306,508
Georgetown 7,405,214
Villanova 5,959,531
Seton Hall 5,200,805
St. Johns 4,729,555
Providence 4,637,423
Creighton 4,036,610
Xavier 3,938,466
Dayton 3,401,333
DePaul 3,257,309
Saint Louis 3,105,150
Butler 1,729,754

There are some programs here that will really need to step up their commitment. See Depaul's Big East results for an example of what happens with marginal spending. Can the non current Big East programs afford to step their spending up in excess of 100%.

As a fan of SLU as well as SIU, I am torn on the new conference idea. I would love to see SLU step up, but only if the are willing to step up financially as well. The 80 million dollar on campus arena along with Majerus were a start. Are they willing to continue and up the spending from the 3 million dollar range to the 7-10 million dollar range.

The question I have for Creighton fans. Do you believe in your administrations commitment to step up to a 7-10 million dollar basketball budget? If they are not willing to make this commitment, the move could terribly backfire and you may be wishing you were back in the MVC in 5 years.

I was going to clarify that while Club BJ looks like they spend similar amounts of money on their basketball program as the schools in that list, anybody close to the organization knows they are broke as dirt. If it wasn't for the City of Omaha, The U of BJ would be middle pack or lower on "basketball investment" numbers in the MVC. When I hear a BJ fan say "we manned up and invested in our program" I giggle and pee just a little bit. Nobody spends more net dollars on their basketball program in the MVC than WSU.

If BJ were to join the Vatican Consortium, they would become the new Sisters of the Poor (no nun.. err pun intended). Increased revenue from a TV contract would help offset their new costs with travel (which would be immensely higher than they are in the MVC).

However, if they weren't competitive in the new league, their already abysmal average ticket prices would go even lower (think Joan of Arc Night reloaded times a billionteen) their rent, advertising, and concession payments would take an even larger chunk of what's left over than they do already. Then you would see Club BJ in the kind of doo doo that even a visit from the Pope in his Popemobile might not even be able to fix.

In regards to BJ receiving an easier trip to the NCAA's playing in this new league: The Vatican Consortium is not a league filled with Duke, NC, Kentucky, Kansas et al. Yes, there are some good basketball programs, but there are some very average ones as well. Just joining a conference like that isn't going to increase NCAA visits, BJ would actually have to beat a lot of the teams in there regularly. And since I just pointed out that they would be near the bottom in net revenue investment, they would have to get a lot luckier than they have been winning all those NCAA Weekend Welfare Invitationals in St. Louis when they had no other chance to get to the NCAA's.

The only thing that I can see where Club BJ is a PERFECT fit with the Vatican Consortium is in how it looks to be a conference of tenants. I did some quick research and Seton Hall, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, and Depaul all RENT THEIR ARENAS while Villanova owns their dinky little 6,500 seat barn, and St. Johns owns their wimpy little 6,000 seat gymnasium. Those schools are hurting for funding more than I would have ever imagined. No wonder they broke away from the Big East over a couple new schools sharing the revenue with them. Many of them must be literally treading water (similar to Club BJ) On a side note: with Villanova near the top in basketball funding, I would suspect they are the ones in the conference who are flush with cash, similar to Wichita State in the MVC.

So the question you have to ask yourselves is this: How does Omaha increase the net revenue for a bunch of catholic schools that don't even have the money to build their own campus arenas? Total Broke Dick schools like Depaul and Providence would have to take some very expensive flights into the midwest to play a school with a media market similar to what Drake enjoys in Des Moines, Iowa, and much smaller than what WSU enjoys in Wichita.




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[DoubleJayAlum]

Jealousy is a foul smelling cologne.

[DoubleJayAlum]

my post was not questioning Creightons current commitment. It was asking would they step up the extra couple of million it is going to take to be at the top of the new conference and compete with Marquette and Georgetown or will they be just another middle of the road team in the new conference. I wonder the same thing about my alma mater SLU. If they aren't willing to step up, they end up like Depaul and becoming in the new conference a perennial bottom feeder.

If the commitment is there, you jump at the chance. If it isn't, you are better off at the top of the MVC.

I think the analysis must be more nuanced than simply, "Will Creighton spend more money?" For instance, what must CU spend more money on? Facilities? We were #6 in the nation in MBB attendance last year, and the CenturyLink deal is beneficial for the school and the city for years to come. We have one of the best college soccer venues in the country (#4 in attendance). TDAmeritrade is home to the CWS and the Jays (#10 in attendance). We recently built Sokol Arena, a prime facility for volleyball and women's basketball. We have a new practice facility for MBB/WBB forthcoming.
Is it spending money on quality coaches? Our soccer coach left North Carolina/ACC and has guided CU to two straight College Cups (five straight for Bolowich). Our WBB coach is about to set the school record for wins. McDermott is a proven winner in the MVC, and my guess is that his years at Iowa State will help him face the pressure of higher competition.
Is it more money on administration? We've had the same AD since 1994, and he was at CU for years before rising to that position. So, where should we spend more money? Travel? Advertising? Recruiting? I'd hope the additional NCAA units would offset any of those costs, right? The reason Creighton is so attractive is because we've collaborated/invested/partnered/strategized to build an exciting athletics program that feels like a part of the university and not a silo to it.

Creighton will have to spend more money. The figures I posted were not athletic budgets but basketball budgets. Your soccer, volleyball and other results/spending mean nothing in this discussion because it is all about basketball. Creighton's spending has gotten it exactly 2 NCAA tourney wins in the last 10 years. Only 1 NCAA tourney appearance in the last 5 years and it took an NCAA 1st team all-american to do that. All this when playing in the MVC and having the highest basketball budget in the conference. You will not be competing on a daily basis with the SIU's, ISU Blue's, Evansville's and Bradley's of the previous 5 years. You will be competing against the Marquette's, Georgetown's, and Xavier's of the basketball world.

As a SLU alum, I think Creighton and SLU both need to jump at the chance if offered. I think it is a once in a lifetime chance for the 2 programs. That said, if they wish to compete at the highest level, I think it is a bad idea to step up and not increase their basketball spending by at least 100%.

I know that seven years ago, I heard so many proclamations by Depaul fans about the great heights their BB team was going to reach by leaving Conference USA for the Big East. They have had exactly zero NCAA appearances since and have gone 22-82 in the conference. Their spending on BB pales in comparison to their conference mates and the results reflect that.

The figures you provided have a lot of fuzziness in them.

Marquette's numbers are so high because they pay Cream a ton. They essentially had a Lowery type of situation where they were paranoid about losing a successful coach and decided to pay substantially over market price to keep him.

The biggest expense of the schools you listed is arena rental. Fortunately, this is the one area where geography benefits CU - it is much cheaper to rent an NBA arena in Omaha, Nebraska then it is in Washington, DC and the remainder of the east coast. Further, Omaha needs Creighton to rent the arena as the other regular tenant, UNO hockey, is moving out of the CLink.

We already pay our coach more than a lot of BCS programs do, so I don't think that will be a huge deal.

I think the recruiting budget will certainly have to be upped. Creighton's biggest issue is that Omaha and Nebraska do not produce a lot of D1 basketball talent, which means we will have to bing in more kids than some of the other schools that have tons of kids in their backyard. The move, however, would give us a chance to get in on a lot of kids that won't consider a Valley school and a big boost when recruiting kids from catholic high schools.

What you keep forgetting is that there will be more revenues too. Bringing schools like Georgetown and Marquette to town will bring much better crowds than MVC schools. We also may be able to ink more homes and homes with BCS level schools. The new league's TV contract will be far superior to the MVCs (some are even speculating that ESPN is the one that pushed the formation of this new league...). There will also be more NCAA tourney credits to disperse. The added exposure should also serve to bump undergrad enrollment, helping the school generate non- sports revenue too.

Financially, I'm not worried. My only worry is the recruiting concern outlined above.

I just hope we get an invite.

[iowactor]

I was going to clarify that while Club BJ looks like they spend similar amounts of money on their basketball program as the schools in that list, anybody close to the organization knows they are broke as dirt. If it wasn't for the City of Omaha, The U of BJ would be middle pack or lower on "basketball investment" numbers in the MVC. When I hear a BJ fan say "we manned up and invested in our program" I giggle and pee just a little bit. Nobody spends more net dollars on their basketball program in the MVC than WSU.

If BJ were to join the Vatican Consortium, they would become the new Sisters of the Poor (no nun.. err pun intended). Increased revenue from a TV contract would help offset their new costs with travel (which would be immensely higher than they are in the MVC).

However, if they weren't competitive in the new league, their already abysmal average ticket prices would go even lower (think Joan of Arc Night reloaded times a billionteen) their rent, advertising, and concession payments would take an even larger chunk of what's left over than they do already. Then you would see Club BJ in the kind of doo doo that even a visit from the Pope in his Popemobile might not even be able to fix.

In regards to BJ receiving an easier trip to the NCAA's playing in this new league: The Vatican Consortium is not a league filled with Duke, NC, Kentucky, Kansas et al. Yes, there are some good basketball programs, but there are some very average ones as well. Just joining a conference like that isn't going to increase NCAA visits, BJ would actually have to beat a lot of the teams in there regularly. And since I just pointed out that they would be near the bottom in net revenue investment, they would have to get a lot luckier than they have been winning all those NCAA Weekend Welfare Invitationals in St. Louis when they had no other chance to get to the NCAA's.

The only thing that I can see where Club BJ is a PERFECT fit with the Vatican Consortium is in how it looks to be a conference of tenants. I did some quick research and Seton Hall, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, and Depaul all RENT THEIR ARENAS while Villanova owns their dinky little 6,500 seat barn, and St. Johns owns their wimpy little 6,000 seat gymnasium. Those schools are hurting for funding more than I would have ever imagined. No wonder they broke away from the Big East over a couple new schools sharing the revenue with them. Many of them must be literally treading water (similar to Club BJ) On a side note: with Villanova near the top in basketball funding, I would suspect they are the ones in the conference who are flush with cash, similar to Wichita State in the MVC.

So the question you have to ask yourselves is this: How does Omaha increase the net revenue for a bunch of catholic schools that don't even have the money to build their own campus arenas? Total Broke Dick schools like Depaul and Providence would have to take some very expensive flights into the midwest to play a school with a media market similar to what Drake enjoys in Des Moines, Iowa, and much smaller than what WSU enjoys in Wichita.




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Wow, cool. Your ignorance is only challenged by your professed incontinence. For some reason--and it's consistent throughout many of your posts--you believe that a school must build and maintain its own venue in order to prove its financial commitment to MBB. Why? When a school can be a major tenant at a venue financed by the city--and a money-maker for the city--why wouldn't you make that deal? It's a venue that hosts the opening weekend of the NCAA tournament. It is NBA quality. Fans like it (That's how you attract over 16,000 fans per game with a mid-major schedule). The reason WSU didn't make that deal was because they couldn't make that deal. The Rolling Stones, U2, Taylor Swift, the Olympic Swimming Trials, etc., etc., are not coming to Wichita. They come to Omaha.

There are many other errors in your knowledge/reasoning (e.g. DePaul taking an expensive flight to the Midwest. Er? Really?) too numerous to mention. I'd tell you that you always have baseball, but that would simply remind you that CU's home is also the site of the College World Series, and that the Bluejays attendance is better than your attendance, too. Shocking, no?

[CBB_Fan]

That's how you attract over 16,000 fans per game with a mid-major schedule

It helps to set the ticket prices at $12 dollars, and routinely lower those prices down to around $6. Season tickets can be yours for $200.

While most Wichita State single game tickets cost around $30, you'll be paying more for a good seat against Creighton than you would for a Creighton season ticket.

And yes, Wichita was really silly to make an undersized arena. IBA needed to have 5000-10000 more seats, and I think most Wichita State fans would agree with that.

Still, I don't think you can deny that Creighton's tickets are priced low to attract casual fans and inflate their attendance.

[C0|db|00ded]

Guys, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here but facts are facts. BJ U is just like the guy with the leased Beemer and fancy wardrobe all of which he financed on credit cards. He looks good as long as he can keep making those payments. But as soon as he misses one and his credit cards are closed, the carriage turns back into a pumpkin.

The weird thing is, not only does BJ rent their arena, but they rent their baseball diamond as well. Renting a baseball diamond? The only other team in the MVC silly enough to make that financial mistake is SWOMO. Renting a baseball diamond? That's a guaranteed negative on the books.

And yes, travel expenses for a cash strapped Big East team to haul all their sports out to the middle of Nowhere Midwest USA is a big negative for them. They didn't have to do it last year, why would they want to do it in the future? What cash is BJ U going to bring to the table (for them) that makes them want to fly all their sports out to the middle of Nebraska?

Taylor Swift, Rolling Stones? WTF does that have to do with The Big BJ being broke? And yes, both those acts have come to Wichita in the last couple of years.

The sign of a financially stable program is ownership, not rental agreements. Several of those Catholic schools have to rent because they had no choice. The same as BJ. If your city wouldn't have built the Quiet Missing Link, you would still be floundering in the other municipal center you rented averaging around 5-6k per game. What's the capacity of the only two Vatican 7 owned arenas? 6,000 and 6,500 hundred.

And speaking of the Quiet, NBA quality? Careful friend. Bugaha built the center at around 14k, and then made some awkward expansions to get to 18k. It's a nice center, probably not as nice as Wichita's Intrust, but certainly bigger and that makes up for it. Seton Hall is renting the brand new Prudential Center to play their basketball games in. That is an NBA arena. By the way, can you imagine what proportion of their revenue is going towards renting out a brand new NBA/NHL arena in downtown Newark, NJ? Ouch!


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[C0|db|00ded]

That's how you attract over 16,000 fans per game with a mid-major schedule

It helps to set the ticket prices at $12 dollars, and routinely lower those prices down to around $6. Season tickets can be yours for $200.

While most Wichita State single game tickets cost around $30, you'll be paying more for a good seat against Creighton than you would for a Creighton season ticket.

And yes, Wichita was really silly to make an undersized arena. IBA needed to have 5000-10000 more seats, and I think most Wichita State fans would agree with that.

Still, I don't think you can deny that Creighton's tickets are priced low to attract casual fans and inflate their attendance.

And if The BJ didn't go at least .600 in the Pope's new basketball league, the casual Husker fans would start to dwindle or the ticket prices would drop or both.

Now you could throw the Shockers into the Pope's league and they could go .500 and still have a full house every night with front row seats selling for $24,000.00 a pair. Yes, $24,000.00 a pair.

Father BJ will find himself in a predicament if he receives an invitation to the Pope's Party. He will have to increase his credit card limits and cross his fingers that the whole thing pays off.

The big question is, how does a financial risk such as this better enable the Holy BJ to complete it's apostolic mission? Does the Vatican equate basketball expansion with evangelism now? Does an angel sing every time Cy gives an opponent the forearm shiver?


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[C0|db|00ded]

And looky here. We have a new Husker fan: Iowatractor!! Just signed up to MVCFans on Dec 13, 2012, pulled his Husker shirt off, and slipped on his new BJ'S TO THE BIG EAST FTWWW!!!!!11111 shirt.

Welcome to the forums man!


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[LJay]

Cold gets worked by a visitor yet continues to pound his pud harder and harder in a feeble attempt to be clever. Too ef'n funny.