Conference Realignment - impact on MVC?

[CBB_Fan]

Anything greater than 10 teams requires divisions except for the A10, ACC, Big East, Big Sky, Big Ten, CAA, CUSA, MEAC, NEC, PAC12, and the SEC.

"Divisions in one form or another."

That doesn't mean strict divisions (2 against division opponents, 1 against non-division opponents), but it does mean that you do not play a round-robin schedule. And if you don't play a round-robin schedule, you need an even number of teams so that every team plays the same number of conference games. And besides, you didn't mention the 5 other conferences that do have divisions.

There is a reason why every team with 12+ members tries to get to an even number, because odd numbers of teams makes it much harder to schedule. You can't play 20+ conference games.

[Haha]

Hawaii has to pay travel subsidies to Big West schools (all in Cali). Can you imagine what those travel subsidies would be for MTN West?

[rally]

Anything greater than 10 teams requires divisions except for the A10, ACC, Big East, Big Sky, Big Ten, CAA, CUSA, MEAC, NEC, PAC12, and the SEC.

"Divisions in one form or another."

That doesn't mean strict divisions (2 against division opponents, 1 against non-division opponents), but it does mean that you do not play a round-robin schedule. And if you don't play a round-robin schedule, you need an even number of teams so that every team plays the same number of conference games. And besides, you didn't mention the 5 other conferences that do have divisions.

There is a reason why every team with 12+ members tries to get to an even number, because odd numbers of teams makes it much harder to schedule. You can't play 20+ conference games.

You don't need an even number to play the same number of conference games without a round robin. Just look at the Big Ten which had 11 teams for 20 years. The MWC doesn't need to anything.

[CBB_Fan]

You don't need an even number to play the same number of conference games without a round robin. Just look at the Big Ten which had 11 teams for 20 years. The MWC doesn't need to anything.

Only two currently leagues have an odd number of members and greater than 12 teams:

The Big East (conference turmoil)
MEAC (only at 13 since they added Savannah State in 2010)

Every other conference either has an even number of members or plays a round-robin schedule with 11 or less teams. And they do that for a reason: scheduling.

The easiest thing to schedule is round-robin play, so a lot of conferences stick with 10 members.
The next easiest is "division" play; playing X number of teams twice and the same number once
The hardest to schedule is non-divisional large group stuff, where you play X opponents twice and Y opponents once

Thus, conferences have a big incentive to get to an even number of teams, which is why 23 conferences have an even number of teams (out of 34), and 9 of the odd teams have a small number of members.

[rally]

You don't need an even number to play the same number of conference games without a round robin. Just look at the Big Ten which had 11 teams for 20 years. The MWC doesn't need to anything.

Only two currently leagues have an odd number of members and greater than 12 teams:

The Big East (conference turmoil)
MEAC (only at 13 since they added Savannah State in 2010)

Every other conference either has an even number of members or plays a round-robin schedule with 11 or less teams. And they do that for a reason: scheduling.

The easiest thing to schedule is round-robin play, so a lot of conferences stick with 10 members.
The next easiest is "division" play; playing X number of teams twice and the same number once
The hardest to schedule is non-divisional large group stuff, where you play X opponents twice and Y opponents once

Thus, conferences have a big incentive to get to an even number of teams, which is why 23 conferences have an even number of teams (out of 34), and 9 of the odd teams have a small number of members.

Scheduling format isn't the issue with an odd number of teams. That's actually rather simple. For example, if you want to play 18 conference games, with 11 teams you play 7 teams twice, 12 you play 6 teams twice, 13 you play 5 teams twice, etc. Who you play twice will need to be addressed whether you have an odd or even number teams.

The issue with an odd number is that there going to be that odd team each time. Then it's really up to the schools if they want to have a week between games or if they want to schedule a non-conference game inbetween. That really isn't that big of an issue. Since not all schools compete in every sport that the conference sponsors, adding a team might give an even number for basketball, but at the same time creating an odd number in another sport.

[CBB_Fan]

The issue with an odd number is that there going to be that odd team each time. Then it's really up to the schools if they want to have a week between games or if they want to schedule a non-conference game inbetween. That really isn't that big of an issue. Since not all schools compete in every sport that the conference sponsors, adding a team might give an even number for basketball, but at the same time creating an odd number in another sport.

That is a scheduling difficulty that is non-existent with an even number of teams. Which is what I was referring to, and it is a bigger issue than what you are making it to be.

Also, here is the information on what the Shockers would do the other teams in the MWC:

Women's Volleyball: 9 + 1 = 10
Women's Soccer: 8 + 0 = 8
Men's Basketball: 9 + 1 = 10
Women's Basketball: 9 + 1 = 10
Women's Swimming and Diving: 9 + 0 = 9
Men's Golf: 9 + 1 = 10
Women's Golf: 9 + 1 = 10
Men's Baseball: 6 + 1 = 7
Women's Softball: 7 + 1 = 8
Men's Tennis: 7 + 1 = 8
Women's Tennis: 9 + 1 = 10

So the Shockers would cause 8 sports to go an even number (important if they add all-sports members later), let one sport stay even, and change one sport to an odd number of competing schools. However, that sport has a small enough pool of competitors that the MWC could add two more schools and not make scheduling an issue (and it wouldn't be an issue in baseball regardless).

[TheAsianSensation]

You don't need an even number to play the same number of conference games without a round robin. Just look at the Big Ten which had 11 teams for 20 years. The MWC doesn't need to anything.

Only two currently leagues have an odd number of members and greater than 12 teams:

The Big East (conference turmoil)
MEAC (only at 13 since they added Savannah State in 2010)

And the MEAC is only in that spot because Winston-Salem St moved up and then back down the last few years in a failed D1 attempt.

I will say this: with the floundering WAC around, they may be able to access non-con games with them to help fill in gaps. But all the things talked about above with logistics hold.

[rally]

The issue with an odd number is that there going to be that odd team each time. Then it's really up to the schools if they want to have a week between games or if they want to schedule a non-conference game inbetween. That really isn't that big of an issue. Since not all schools compete in every sport that the conference sponsors, adding a team might give an even number for basketball, but at the same time creating an odd number in another sport.

That is a scheduling difficulty that is non-existent with an even number of teams. Which is what I was referring to, and it is a bigger issue than what you are making it to be.

Also, here is the information on what the Shockers would do the other teams in the MWC:

Women's Volleyball: 9 + 1 = 10
Women's Soccer: 8 + 0 = 8
Men's Basketball: 9 + 1 = 10
Women's Basketball: 9 + 1 = 10
Women's Swimming and Diving: 9 + 0 = 9
Men's Golf: 9 + 1 = 10
Women's Golf: 9 + 1 = 10
Men's Baseball: 6 + 1 = 7
Women's Softball: 7 + 1 = 8
Men's Tennis: 7 + 1 = 8
Women's Tennis: 9 + 1 = 10

So the Shockers would cause 8 sports to go an even number (important if they add all-sports members later), let one sport stay even, and change one sport to an odd number of competing schools. However, that sport has a small enough pool of competitors that the MWC could add two more schools and not make scheduling an issue (and it wouldn't be an issue in baseball regardless).

I'm not making it out to be a big issue because the MWC hasn't made it out to be a big issue. The odd team issue goes back Dec. 2003 when they decided to add TCU to put them at 9 teams. Nothing was done about it even with an obvious candidate in Boise State to bring them to 10, but they weren't added until after it was clear Utah had its bags packed for the Pac-12.

This whole idea that MWC would want to add a non-footballs school ignores the current landscape of realignment. There were reports that BYU, BSU, and SDSU may want to rejoin the MWC because the new playoff format. Also reports that UNLV and Fresno State could be targets for the Big East and even reports that New Mexico and Colorado make look to form a new conference with Boise State and/or BYU. Those are real issues that concern the MWC. Common sense should tell you that adding a non-football school to balance their non-football sports isn't even on their radar. Even if it is an issue they want to address, when the dust settles from the football realignment, the issue may already be taken care of.

[CBB_Fan]

I'm not making it out to be a big issue because the MWC hasn't made it out to be a big issue. The odd team issue goes back Dec. 2003 when they decided to add TCU to put them at 9 teams. Nothing was done about it even with an obvious candidate in Boise State to bring them to 10, but they weren't added until after it was clear Utah had its bags packed for the Pac-12.

This whole idea that MWC would want to add a non-footballs school ignores the current landscape of realignment. There were reports that BYU, BSU, and SDSU may want to rejoin the MWC because the new playoff format. Also reports that UNLV and Fresno State could be targets for the Big East and even reports that New Mexico and Colorado make look to form a new conference with Boise State and/or BYU. Those are real issues that concern the MWC. Common sense should tell you that adding a non-football school to balance their non-football sports isn't even on their radar. Even if it is an issue they want to address, when the dust settles from the football realignment, the issue may already be taken care of.

With 9 teams, it is a non-issue. However, the MWC is not going to stay at 9 teams for all-sports, plus Hawaii for football. If they get Boise State and UNLV back, and start picking up extra teams like Tulsa and UTEP, then they will have a fair amount of incentive to add an all-sports member to bring the conference to 14 or 16 teams.

Is it low priority for them? Yes. But that doesn't mean it won't happen. It just means that the conference members are going to talk more about the football expansion.

[TheAsianSensation]

A non-football member isn't on their immediate radar, but if we've learned something in realignment, you have to think 3 or 4 steps ahead. And if the MWC expands with its former members they'll need to do something about it. Now maybe the MWC doesn't expand, or if they do expand, maybe there's another solution out there. But if you're Wichita, you plant that seed with them NOW because if the situation arises later on, that seed will be ready to bear fruit immediately.