Conference Realignment - impact on MVC?

[DUShock]

Perhaps the Valley is best served with Creighton and Wichita going to greener pastures. I do think the Valley is best served when Elgin is given walking papers. Yes, I more than happy to make such declarations even to Dougie (give me a PM I will provide my two cents and even buy the food and wine).

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

[DoubleJayAlum]

Perhaps the Valley is best served with Creighton and Wichita going to greener pastures. I do think the Valley is best served when Elgin is given walking papers. Yes, I more than happy to make such declarations even to Dougie (give me a PM I will provide my two cents and even buy the food and wine).

Go Valley!!

Go Shocks!!!!

If Creighton were to leave, it would not be Elgin's fault and there would have been nothing Elgin could have done to prevent it. Any blame placed upon him is misplaced.

The fact of the matter is that Creighton's fans and its administration have long wanted to be in a league with like-minded, similar schools. If you really look at this conference, Creighton sticks out like a sore thumb. Most of the schools are big public schools and all of those but one have football. Among the private schools, the only school with religious ties is Evansville (I'd argue that when it comes to athletic investment, Creighton and Evansville aren't really peers either.) Creighton is a relatively small, private, non-football playing catholic school of which there are many throughout the country, but only one in the MVC.

What I don't think that fans of the other MVC schools truly understand is that these catholic schools are truly our peers. If you come from a catholic family in the midwest and/or attend a catholic high school in the midwest, odds are pretty good that you seriously considered and maybe even applied at Creighton, Marquette, Depaul, Xavier, etc. when deciding where to go to college (Rockhurst in KC is probably in that group as well, but since they do not have D1 basketball, I'm leaving them out of this conversation for now). If you went to a Jesuit high school, the chances are that you not only considered those schools, but selected one of those schools for college. It is pretty common for midwestern catholic families to have one child attend Creighton, one attend Marquette and perhaps another child attend a different catholic school depending on their majors.

At this point, I just hope Creighton gets an offer, but blaming Elgin for this is not really fair.

[Khan4Cats]

If Creighton were to leave, it would not be Elgin's fault and there would have been nothing Elgin could have done to prevent it. Any blame placed upon him is misplaced.

The fact of the matter is that Creighton's fans and its administration have long wanted to be in a league with like-minded, similar schools. If you really look at this conference, Creighton sticks out like a sore thumb. Most of the schools are big public schools and all of those but one have football. Among the private schools, the only school with religious ties is Evansville (I'd argue that when it comes to athletic investment, Creighton and Evansville aren't really peers either.) Creighton is a relatively small, private, non-football playing catholic school of which there are many throughout the country, but only one in the MVC.

What I don't think that fans of the other MVC schools truly understand is that these catholic schools are truly our peers. If you come from a catholic family in the midwest and/or attend a catholic high school in the midwest, odds are pretty good that you seriously considered and maybe even applied at Creighton, Marquette, Depaul, Xavier, etc. when deciding where to go to college (Rockhurst in KC is probably in that group as well, but since they do not have D1 basketball, I'm leaving them out of this conversation for now). If you went to a Jesuit high school, the chances are that you not only considered those schools, but selected one of those schools for college. It is pretty common for midwestern catholic families to have one child attend Creighton, one attend Marquette and perhaps another child attend a different catholic school depending on their majors.

At this point, I just hope Creighton gets an offer, but blaming Elgin for this is not really fair.

I agree that Elgin isn't to be blamed if Creighton leaves for this new conference. His fault is in not trying to build the league by gaining a Butler earlier or even looking like he is trying to make moves rather than just trying to hold onto Bracketbusters and the MWC-MVC challenge (both of which are now toast). He did some really good things for the conference 10 years ago but not much recently.

The second part of your statement is also absolutely true about the Catholic University/College system in this country and why it has been a little surprising nothing has happened earlier. It is also why I find it curious that Butler is involved in the discussions because they have to know and must be willing to accept that this new conference will have a strong Catholic identity in more ways than just name. This is a definite identity statement that is going to be made with this conference. I wouldn't be surprised if there were prayers prior to games in addition to the national anthem. Not saying that would be a bad thing, just that it is part of the identity/mission of Catholic Universities and Colleges.

[CBB_Fan]

If you really look at this conference, Creighton sticks out like a sore thumb. Most of the schools are big public schools and all of those but one have football.

Wichita State has a similar perspective. I know, no similarity with Creighton, but they feel like they have very little fit with the conference.

We feel that the conference is full of small private schools with little or no athletic expenditure and public schools that want to become football schools. We are a medium-large public school with a big athletic department, an urban environment, and no football program. Of course, we wouldn't be a perfect fit for any conference, but we feel that our defining characteristics (urban environment, large basketball expenditures, no football) are not well represented in the Valley.

I know it seems odd, but I honestly think that in some ways, Wichita State has more in common with Marquette or DePaul than they do with Indiana State.

[valleychamp]

Almost every conference is full of schools that are different sizes, are different types of schools, have different athletic goals, different academic goals, differing budget sizes, etc. This is the case with the majority of athletic conferences all over the country. Its one of the things that, IMO, makes conferences interesting and I think that applies to the Valley as well. Just because all of the schools are not similar does not mean that they do not "fit" together in a conference.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Just because all of the schools are not similar does not mean that they do not "fit" together in a conference.

Okay, I can agree with that.

In Creighton's case though, it isn't that all of the schools are similar to CU, it is that NONE of the schools are similar.

[DoubleJayAlum]

I know it seems odd, but I honestly think that in some ways, Wichita State has more in common with Marquette or DePaul than they do with Indiana State.

Athletically perhaps, but not academically. To be fair, it isn't really feasible to compare state school admissions standards with private school admissions standards because their missions are so dramatically different. Further, the funding models are completely different -- private schools are completely self supporting, while state schools get $$ handed to them from state legislatures.

[jaybydna]

One of the reasons to say yes to the C7 is question as to whether the other MVC schools are committing to Athletics as much as Creighton wants to. This is my big reason. The C7 will continue to invest in improving athletics, as will CU.

Illustration time, via a Tweet from CU: Since 3/4/12, Creighton men's soccer, volleyball, men's basketball & women's basketball are a combined 35-1-1 against other MVC schools

[Wufan]

Not sure why you are only including 6 men's and women's basketball games in those stats. I would think you would add in last years stats and still be quite good.

Also, if you are going to cherry pick dates, I think it would be more relevant to include all sports instead of also cherry picking the sports with which CU has success.

[jaybydna]

Not sure why you are only including 6 men's and women's basketball games in those stats. I would think you would add in last years stats and still be quite good.

Also, if you are going to cherry pick dates, I think it would be more relevant to include all sports instead of also cherry picking the sports with which CU has success.

I thought so too. I was just repeating what CU's SID tweeted. Impressive stat though.