Shox @ Bears 7 PM Jan 23

[BEARZ77]

You have it backwards,

That is not the story from the WSU beat writer.

How did Thurman slip away from WSU? Or did we go after him hard?

WSU recruited him. Last fall, they backed off while he got his grades in order. I think that was the end of that. WSU didn't have a spot for him and he had other options.

Whom I to believe you or him...

Snags....sounds like you are uninformed. When someone posts a reply like you did,with no specifics to rebut the specifics that you are replying to.....well......as we used to say, smells like inkwells on the run.

Let me help you out. The quotes from Snagg's post was taken directly from the WSU beat writer's chat today. It's on Paul Sullentrop's blog on Kansas.com. The question was asked just as stated above. "How did Thurman slip away from WSU or did we go after him hard?" His response is quoted above. I'm pretty sure that WSU did offer him during the summer and he wanted to wait. Later on they backed away because of his grades, etc. and the rest happened. I think that other quality players were committing while he waited to decide, then the grades thing happened and I'm not sure if they had any scholarships left. Probably everyone is a little right.

Which is exactly as I have stated; he had an offer in hand , wanted to wait, and then both parties moved on. If you go back in the recruiting threads this is even how it was reported on the shocker fan board at the time and also there are a couple recruiting services that reported that Gavin had picked up an offer from the Shox. If Gavin had wanted to be a Shocker when they first offered he would have been one, but it was his decision to wait after the initial offer. Again it's just funny that Shocker fans with all the success they're having are so sensitive about this issue and need to rewrite history. Also , you might want to check the 90's for some of those Shocker records ; not only were there some equally bad to this years Bears, but look at some of the scores they lost by and notice it was multiple years at that level[ 4 years between 91 and 2001 with less than 10 wins]Even GM'S 1st WSU team was only 11-20 and 4-14 in the conference.. Bad is bad, and this years Bears will go down as either our worst or second worst at D-1, but like I've said, there aren't many programs including WSU that haven't been there.

[moshock]

Which is exactly as I have stated; he had an offer in hand , wanted to wait, and then both parties moved on. If you go back in the recruiting threads this is even how it was reported on the shocker fan board at the time and also there are a couple recruiting services that reported that Gavin had picked up an offer from the Shox. If Gavin had wanted to be a Shocker when they first offered he would have been one, but it was his decision to wait after the initial offer. Again it's just funny that Shocker fans with all the success they're having are so sensitive about this issue and need to rewrite history. Also , you might want to check the 90's for some of those Shocker records ; not only were there some equally bad to this years Bears, but look at some of the scores they lost by and notice it was multiple years at that level[ 4 years between 91 and 2001 with less than 10 wins]Even GM'S 1st WSU team was only 11-20 and 4-14 in the conference.. Bad is bad, and this years Bears will go down as either our worst or second worst at D-1, but like I've said, there aren't many programs including WSU that haven't been there.

I feel your pain. Been there done that. But having said that - the difference in MSU now and WSU in their dark days is that WSU fans still supported their team. The crowd Wednesday night was pathetic. WSU, even at it's lowest level, always drew a lot of fans.

It cracks me up that you guys act like you won some kind of recruiting war to get Gavin. The truth is he had an offer from WSU and others. His grades were sketchy and MSU was willing to take the risk (mostly because everyone else they had recruited was "under the radar") - WSU had options and moved on. I think it's great that he's at MSU. It gives me someone to cheer for that is from my hometown.

moshock = 13black ??? Sorry, you are mistaken.

[glm38]

Does the issue of Gavin being recruited by WSU even matter anymore? He was offered a scholarship there but for whatever reason it didn't work out and now he's a Bear. Good for us.

Kudos to the Shockers for their current string of fine seasons. It is impressive. Early is a very good player (maybe a great one) but he is 2 years older than Gavin. So comparing the 2 isn't really fair. Which makes last games head to head match up pretty impressive.

The Bears are down now but we wont stay down. The young talent is there. Lusk is on record as saying he wouldn't trade Gavin and Marcus for any 2 freshmen in the MVC which is pretty accurate IMO. Give us back Gulley next year and sign a decent juco big man and we'll be right back in the mix.

[moshock]

Does the issue of Gavin being recruited by WSU even matter anymore? He was offered a scholarship there but for whatever reason it didn't work out and now he's a Bear. Good for us.

Kudos to the Shockers for their current string of fine seasons. It is impressive. Early is a very good player (maybe a great one) but he is 2 years older than Gavin. So comparing the 2 isn't really fair. Which makes last games head to head match up pretty impressive.

The Bears are down now but we wont stay down. The young talent is there. Lusk is on record as saying he wouldn't trade Gavin and Marcus for any 2 freshmen in the MVC which is pretty accurate IMO. Give us back Gulley next year and sign a decent juco big man and we'll be right back in the mix.

[agrinut]

I don't think anyone with the capability of taking Cleanthony Early would pass him up to take Thurman. Add in Derail Green and Shaq Morris, and there really wasn't enough room for a kid, though local, who was on the fence. We had options. More (better) options than Thurman. It just didn't work out for him so he'll have to settle for playing in Wichita once per year over his career.

Thurman took Mr. Early to school on Wednesday and what does Morris have to do with anything? Time will tell but right now the shockers are losing this fight.

[moshock]

I don't think anyone with the capability of taking Cleanthony Early would pass him up to take Thurman. Add in Derail Green and Shaq Morris, and there really wasn't enough room for a kid, though local, who was on the fence. We had options. More (better) options than Thurman. It just didn't work out for him so he'll have to settle for playing in Wichita once per year over his career.

Thurman took Mr. Early to school on Wednesday and what does Morris have to do with anything? Time will tell but right now the shockers are losing this fight.

62 - 52

[Ricardo del Rio]

quote="BEARZ77"]You have it backwards, [/quote]

That is not the story from the WSU beat writer.

quote]How did Thurman slip away from WSU? Or did we go after him hard?

WSU recruited him. Last fall, they backed off while he got his grades in order. I think that was the end of that. WSU didn't have a spot for him and he had other options.
[/quote]

Whom I to believe you or him...[/quote]

Snags....sounds like you are uninformed. When someone posts a reply like you did,with no specifics to rebut the specifics that you are replying to.....well......as we used to say, smells like inkwells on the run.

Let me help you out. The quotes from Snagg's post was taken directly from the WSU beat writer's chat today. It's on Paul Sullentrop's blog on Kansas.com. The question was asked just as stated above. "How did Thurman slip away from WSU or did we go after him hard?" His response is quoted above. I'm pretty sure that WSU did offer him during the summer and he wanted to wait. Later on they backed away because of his grades, etc. and the rest happened. I think that other quality players were committing while he waited to decide, then the grades thing happened and I'm not sure if they had any scholarships left. Probably everyone is a little right.[/quote]

Which is exactly as I have stated; he had an offer in hand , wanted to wait, and then both parties moved on. If you go back in the recruiting threads this is even how it was reported on the shocker fan board at the time and also there are a couple recruiting services that reported that Gavin had picked up an offer from the Shox. If Gavin had wanted to be a Shocker when they first offered he would have been one, but it was his decision to wait after the initial offer. Again it's just funny that Shocker fans with all the success they're having are so sensitive about this issue and need to rewrite history. Also , you might want to check the 90's for some of those Shocker records ; not only were there some equally bad to this years Bears, but look at some of the scores they lost by and notice it was multiple years at that level[ 4 years between 91 and 2001 with less than 10 wins]Even GM'S 1st WSU team was only 11-20 and 4-14 in the conference.. Bad is bad, and this years Bears will go down as either our worst or second worst at D-1, but like I've said, there aren't many programs including WSU that haven't been there.[/quote]

You remind me of my ex-wife - "beat it to death." Then when everyone falls silent, you assume you have won the argument.

[BEARZ77]

I've never considered giving factual information an argument. It only appears to be one to those generally unencumbered by the truth. As iSASO so often states, my only goal here is to educate.

[WhiskeySierraUniform]

I can speak for all Shocker fans when I say that the one that REALLY got away that I wish the Shox would have taken was Travis Walk. That one still stings to this day...

[rjl]

I don't think anyone with the capability of taking Cleanthony Early would pass him up to take Thurman. Add in Derail Green and Shaq Morris, and there really wasn't enough room for a kid, though local, who was on the fence. We had options. More (better) options than Thurman. It just didn't work out for him so he'll have to settle for playing in Wichita once per year over his career.

Thurman took Mr. Early to school on Wednesday and what does Morris have to do with anything? Time will tell but right now the shockers are losing this fight.

Early has had a far superior season as compared to Thurman so far. As for this specific game, Early wasn't even on the court when Thurman was doing a lot of his damage near the end of the first half. If you evaluate the players on a point-per-minute basis, Early comes in at .607 and Thurman at .583. And that statistic was the closest Thurman gets (where was Thurman when Early outrebounded him by 8?).

You don't recruit a player just so he can go balls out against his hometown team. You recruit a player so that he can amass a body of work throughout his career at your school. No doubt that Thurman is going to be a great player at MSU, but to say that Early isn't better right now is to be facetious.