NDSU/SDSU to MVC asap.

[Fargobison]

I thought NDSU had money, but I am starting to rethink that.

They play football in an off campus facility that they don't own.

UNI is a good comparison with the successful football program. We are paying Farley 294k and Jake gets 500k. Even with 'nattys' they are only paying Bohl 206k and whoever the hell their basketball coach is only making 135k.

Hmmmmm. Seeing the numbers is really starting to change my views on NDSU...

Bohl gets paid a chunk of the gate on top of his base, plus he has a media deal that puts him at around $300k before he gets paid performance incentives. I do think he could ask NDSU for more but recently he has wanted his assistants to get raises, I believe his new contract guarantees that in writing that his assistants will be paid at the top 10 of the FCS. Outside of that his new deal didn't really give him much of a raise.

We play in on campus football facility that we don't fully control. But if somebody is going to build you a new facility on campus it is hard to say no. We also have two new field turf practice fields, new coaches offices and locker rooms that the school/donors all paid for. We are just about ready to break ground on a $32 million basketball facility and there is $6 million indoor track facility that we just built sitting right next to it. Clearly we are in the poor house right now and have no money.

Didn't mean to imply there was no money, just thought you were more or less swimming in oil money and maybe that's not the case...

I wish we were swimming in money, don't get me wrong the school is doing well but right now a lot of the money is being locked away by the state and the rest is being split up or used to cut taxes.

Higher ed is getting more but most of that goes to build academic facilities and academic budgets though.

[C0|db|00ded]

The Dakota's can have our spot in the Valley. We will gladly leave to make room.


T


...

[Lakesbison]

Can't we all just get along.....(my main man rodney!)

[LanceShock]

This has been a rather amusing thread. It makes all of the rationalizing that we WSU fans have done about being a good fit for the Mountain West look downright realistic.

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

If you look across the whole spectrum of college athletics, NDSU is just a winner. softball, women's volleyball, football, everything. I have watched their baseball, softball, and volleyball teams in person before and they just carry themselves like a big time program. I can't really explain it. They just are a first class organization. My intuition just tells me that they will be winners, big winners if they come to the Valley.

With the way things have gone for Minnesota in most sports I really feel like an NDSU in the MVC could come close to 50/50 in terms of support in the Twin Cities. We tend to laugh at the smallness of North Dakota, but remember they get a ton of athletes and support from Minnesota which is just a one show kind of state. And with Tubby and Jerry Kill that show is mediocre.I like North Dakota State a lot.

[bisonnation]

Hi Bison fan here. This thread got off to a bad start. I see LakesBison and some of our MVFC foes are already going at each other!

First off, the MVC does not NEED to add the Dakotas. That was a bad way for Lakes to start the thread. I get it, if your replacing a single powerhouse team like Creighton who has massive crowds and replacing them with Dakota teams, it's not very sexy and I get that but if you lose multiple teams and need to fill some spots, we're certainly worth of a discussion. Sorry it's so long. So many things have come up

NDSU/SDSU are similar to our peers in the MVFC and would be a stable addition. We are unique in the sense that the Dakota's do not have major pro teams so we end up being the biggest teams in our respective states. And the potential for growth is huge as we've only been D1 for a short period of time. If Northern Iowa can do it, why not NDSU and SDSU?

Also in our short D1 history, NDSU has made the Sweet 16 in D1 womens softball, seen both teams make the Big Dance in mens baskeball, the SDSU womens baskeball program has made the tournament 4 years in a row (is regularly ranked and wins tournament games) and NDSU volleyball has made the tournament 5 out of 6 years. NDSU actually made the top 10 in the Capital One cup.

NDSU has won 22 team National Championships (some as D1, College Division, and D2 level) and SDSU has won a National Championship in both mens and womens basketball. NDSU womens basketball won 5 D2 National Championships. And we have numerous All Americans and even a few Olympians. And not to mention we are both pretty good at football.

BASKETBALL FACILITIES
Right now NDSU plays in the Bison Sports Arena. It's a below average facility and it has hindered our growth. However, soon we will be completing a 32 million dollar renovation and it will be be a strength. Additionally, it is right next to the 20K seat Fargodome which is used for larger games. The NDSU/UND basketball game drew over 10,000. They are even making plans for a skyway that leads directly to it.


SDSU plays in Frost arena. Some people have criticized it but it is actually a solid arena with a 6500 capacity which is only 500 less than UNI. The atmosphere is great and believe me it would be improved with a conference move.

ATTENDANCE
Joining a premiere basketball league would immediately spike the attendance and we would be in the middle of the pack with the potential to sellout every game. Certainly we're not in the same world as Creighton but solid. NDSU and SDSU fans will support good quality baskeball. Having a great conference would mean every game is a great draw. Problem is since we've become a D1 team, we've had a weak conference (from a draw perspective and even suffered through and independant schedule for a few years), a weak home non conference schedule, and no natural rivals other than SDSU/NDSU. Although UND has been a non conference game and drew over 10,000 and was moved to the dome. Same with USD/SDSU. It's a big game.

In 2009/2010 when NDSU made the Big Dance for the first time, over 10,000 fans traveled to Minneapolis on short notice to watch them play the #1 Kansas Jayhawks.

2010–2011 Average Men's Basketball Conference Attendance.

School Average Attendance
Creighton 16,667
Wichita State 10,428
Bradley 8,447
Missouri State 7,595
Indiana State 5,602
Evansville 4,910
Northern Iowa 4,767
Illinois State 4,636
Drake 4,230
Southern Illinois 2,519

OVERALL BASKETBALL SUCCESS
NDSU made the Big Dance in 2009/2010. SDSU made the tournament in 2011/2012 season. Both teams are primed to do it again this year. NDSU has wins over a top 10 ranked Wisconsin , top 10 ranked Marquette, and SDSU has a win over #17 New Mexico, Washington, and Iowa. Currently NDSU and SDSU have the 2nd and 3rd highest RPI of any team in the Missouri Valley. Obviously the competition is lower in the Summit but being ranked in the mid major poll still shows we're at least quality.

And in the D2 world, both teams have won a combined 7 National Championships. (NDSU women 5, SDSU women 1, and SDSU mens 1)

BUILT IN RIVALRIES
Geographically we're a good fit. We are already in the Valley for football and Indiana State, Illinois State, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, and Northern Iowa are teams we already play.

MARKET SIZE
Consider this. Kansas State plays in a small market. Kansas isn't much larger either. If SIU and UNI can do it, why can't NDSU and SDSU? Brookings is close to Sioux Falls. Fargo-Moorhead and Sioux Falls are growing areas. Actually Sioux Falls-Sioux City, SD-IA-MN-NE Designated Market Area (DMA) has a population of over a million. Fargo-Moorhead is over 212K but within a 100 mile radius it balloons to over a half million. Both are a near Minneapolis.

DEDICATION TO FOOTBALL vs BASKETBALL
NDSU football is loaded. The dome is ridiculously nice and we have everything we need. For other sports, we will be completing a 32 million dollar upgrade, just built a giant indoor track/field facility, have a top notch volleyball facility, and our baseball stadium is shared with a professional team. Our softball field is respectable. I'm not as familiar with SDSU but they are building an indoor practice facility for all teams.

RECRUITING FOOTPRINT
Seriously if the Valley is a big time league, do they really need to worry about this? Besides, Minneapolis is one of the largest markets and we are a short drive away. Our radio network covers from Eastern Montana, most of South Dakota, all of North Dakota, and much of Minnesota, including the valuable Minneapolis market.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-GLe-nWB38I[/video]

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

Great post! Really, really good summary.

I'll sit and wait for the enlightened folk around here to rebut that while espousing the University of Denver or something.

I don't know as much about SDSU but if you all are a package deal I feel comfortable bringing them along as well.

[DoubleJayAlum]

I am going to leave my self-imposed moratorium to post on this topic.

I sincerely hope these teams are being discussed only in the event Creighton leaves because I don't want to be in a conference with the Dakota schools.

Lakesbison (and other NDSU fans) have said so many crazy things, I feel a response is necessary.

1) First of all NDSU fans, stop bragging about your football program. THIS IS A BASKETBALL CONFERENCE. The basketball schools in this conference don't care if you won 700 "nattys" at the D2 level. Let me repeat - we don't care! When selling yourself to a basketball conference, talk about your basketball team, not football team.

2) please, don't tell us that we may be playing basketball in a football dome. We did that before and everybody hated it. We do not want to do it again.

3) After reading the posts, it seems quite clear that the Dakota schools are afraid the summit is blowing up and are just looking for a place to park their non-FB teams while they try to move FB up a level. That doesn't strike me as a good reason to add teams for conference expansion.

4) I don't see anyway that the Dakota schools are realistically admitted anyway. If CU and UE were to leave, the remaining private schools are not going to vote for them to be replaced with two public schools. Also, WSU is never going to support the addition. If CU and UE don't leave, they will never vote for the dakota schools either. Due to the financial circumstances of many of the football schools, I can't see many of them voting to add an expensive, lengthy trip north to a rural area where nobody lives. We already have Northern Iowa for that.

5) When expanding, you have to look for one or more of the following: (a) a regular NCAA/NIT attendee; (b) a large TV market; (c) a fanbase that has shown it will show up to basketball game; or (d) a recruiting hotbed. The Dakota schools do none of these things - they don't regularly attend the tournament, they have a miniscule population; they have the lowest home attendance next to No Iowa; there are next to zero recruits in the dakotas (the whole business about MInnesota isn't really all that appealing as the MVC schools that want to recruit there already do it effectively). Further, Omaha and Cedar Falls are already just a few hours from the twin cities.

6) Congrats on having a nice year Dakota schools, but your basketball programs are not ready to compete in the MVC regardless of what your RPIs and midmajor rankings (Yuck!) are. ( PS - we are not impressed with rankings in the mid-major poll as a rule. Most of us are embarrassed that the MVC participates in that dumb thing anyway).

7) The idea that MVC schools ducked the dakota schools in the bracketbuster may well be the dumbest thing posted in the entire history of a MVC message board. And that, my friends, is no small accomplishment.

[TheAsianSensation]

One thing about the debate of the Dakotas: I don't think we have enough sample points to tell if they will be good basketball programs long term. They'd had good success in a bad league, and have done very well this year maintaining good RPIs. SDSU won in The Pit, for God's sake.

But I'm not sure about long-term. Wolters is a big part of SDSU this year, and NDSU IIRC redshirted all their guys during the D1 moveup to make a run at the one NCAA tournament they made. They may or may not be able to be good basketball programs. We don't know yet.

Which is why I prefer to wait and not invite them. Let them build up multiple winning seasons in a row, build in a tradition of good D1 basketball, then invite them. It's the same theory behind Belmont and Murray St - those programs are dominant in their conferences over many years; that's why they're now candidates.

One counter to the market size issue: I don't think the Valley really need Minneapolis. It'd be an overall positive, but not necessary to MVC survival.

[UNIFanSince1983]

If you look across the whole spectrum of college athletics, NDSU is just a winner. softball, women's volleyball, football, everything. I have watched their baseball, softball, and volleyball teams in person before and they just carry themselves like a big time program. I can't really explain it. They just are a first class organization. My intuition just tells me that they will be winners, big winners if they come to the Valley.

With the way things have gone for Minnesota in most sports I really feel like an NDSU in the MVC could come close to 50/50 in terms of support in the Twin Cities. We tend to laugh at the smallness of North Dakota, but remember they get a ton of athletes and support from Minnesota which is just a one show kind of state. And with Tubby and Jerry Kill that show is mediocre.I like North Dakota State a lot.

The bolded is quite false. Jerry Kill has turned Minnesota around from what Tim Brewster did. And Tubby has made Minnesota a regular contender in the toughest conference in America.