MVC 10 Members or 12? Front-runners?

[DoubleJayAlum]

Unless those three programs would be consistently good enough to make the MVC a perennial 3-bid league, they wouldn't replace the CU loss from a financial standpoint. They MIGHT help keep the MVC good enough to hope for two bids each year. But that would remain to be seen. Even as meager as it is do we really want to spread out the NCAA tournament revenue allotment among more schools?

Hey I get it CU has won the tournament the past couple of seasons and came away with the regular season title this time but they aren't irreplaceable. Belmont is a very similar program and imagine how successful they could be if they entered the Valley.

I'm not as great computing numbers and analyzing the financial stuff but from a competition and viewer interest angle subtracting CU while adding Belmont, ORU, and Murray State is an upgrade. And exciting too with the new blood.

Bottom line we have to get past this "Woe is me" attitude and look at this as an opportunity rather than some kind of setback. This is a chance to revitalize the conference and get excited with perhaps 12 schools that want to be here.

You miss his point entirely.

Several schools depend on NCAA tourney credit money to pay their bills. Royal is suggesting that splitting that money among two additional schools (no matter who they are) may be problematic for financial reasons to certain schools in the conference. I think he's probably right. It probably also fair to speculate that MSU would be one of the schools that would be against bringing the total number of schools to 12.

[Shocktop42]

The MVC will not be able to replace the loss of Creighton with one school. IMO, they need to add three.

My choices would be: Murray State, Belmont, and Oral Roberts.

MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Unless those three programs would be consistently good enough to make the MVC a perennial 3-bid league, they wouldn't replace the CU loss from a financial standpoint. They MIGHT help keep the MVC good enough to hope for two bids each year. But that would remain to be seen. Even as meager as it is do we really want to spread out the NCAA tournament revenue allotment among more schools?

Wait...what.... Have we ever been a "perennial" three bid league? Looking back on the history of the MVC would suggest that we are a 1-2 bid league MOST years.

The money issue is still out there. Many of our schools are poor and require that funding to compete (which i've always found a little rediculous). The unfortunate truth is that most of our conference would not be admitted TODAY if the MVC were looking to replace schools.

I personally believe that we should go after whomever we can get that will make the conference strong in the long term. Belmont does look to be a good school to do that.

As for 10 or 12 schools.... I don't know. Can I suggest that we drop some of the dead weight from our conference? Is that uncool?

[RoyalShock]

The MVC will not be able to replace the loss of Creighton with one school. IMO, they need to add three.

My choices would be: Murray State, Belmont, and Oral Roberts.

MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Unless those three programs would be consistently good enough to make the MVC a perennial 3-bid league, they wouldn't replace the CU loss from a financial standpoint. They MIGHT help keep the MVC good enough to hope for two bids each year. But that would remain to be seen. Even as meager as it is do we really want to spread out the NCAA tournament revenue allotment among more schools?

Hey I get it CU has won the tournament the past couple of seasons and came away with the regular season title this time but they aren't irreplaceable. Belmont is a very similar program and imagine how successful they could be if they entered the Valley.

I'm not as great computing numbers and analyzing the financial stuff but from a competition and viewer interest angle subtracting CU while adding Belmont, ORU, and Murray State is an upgrade. And exciting too with the new blood.

Bottom line we have to get past this "Woe is me" attitude and look at this as an opportunity rather than some kind of setback. This is a chance to revitalize the conference and get excited with perhaps 12 schools that want to be here.

DJA is correct about what my point was. But now to your point. Please explain, using from the past 10 years - records, RPI, NCAA appearances, attendance and athletic dept. revenue/expenditures - to show how Belmont is a "very similar" program to Creighton.

Belmont may be as reasonable a replacement as there is available, but as long as they have to compete with Vandy (in the same city), UT and Memphis for bandwagon fans, they will never have the advantages Creighton has enjoyed.

[RoyalShock]

The MVC will not be able to replace the loss of Creighton with one school. IMO, they need to add three.

My choices would be: Murray State, Belmont, and Oral Roberts.

MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Unless those three programs would be consistently good enough to make the MVC a perennial 3-bid league, they wouldn't replace the CU loss from a financial standpoint. They MIGHT help keep the MVC good enough to hope for two bids each year. But that would remain to be seen. Even as meager as it is do we really want to spread out the NCAA tournament revenue allotment among more schools?

Wait...what.... Have we ever been a "perennial" three bid league? Looking back on the history of the MVC would suggest that we are a 1-2 bid league MOST years.

The money issue is still out there. Many of our schools are poor and require that funding to compete (which i've always found a little rediculous). The unfortunate truth is that most of our conference would not be admitted TODAY if the MVC were looking to replace schools.

I personally believe that we should go after whomever we can get that will make the conference strong in the long term. Belmont does look to be a good school to do that.

As for 10 or 12 schools.... I don't know. Can I suggest that we drop some of the dead weight from our conference? Is that uncool?

I didn't say we have been a perennial 3-bid league. My point is, we would need to be in order to receive roughly the same NCAA tournament distribution when spread across 12 schools instead of 10.

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

But now to your point. Please explain, using from the past 10 years - records, RPI, NCAA appearances, attendance and athletic dept. revenue/expenditures - to show how Belmont is a "very similar" program to Creighton.

Belmont may be as reasonable a replacement as there is available, but as long as they have to compete with Vandy (in the same city), UT and Memphis for bandwagon fans, they will never have the advantages Creighton has enjoyed.

I'd be happy to do some more research on this and produce some attendance numbers, revenue, etc. What I can tell you right now is that in the last decade Creighton has been to the NCAA Tournament 5 times. Belmont will make it a 6th appearance in the last ten years when they dance this time around. Creighton has exactly one more NCAA tourney win in that period and they have the same number of Sweet Sixteens.

[jwa123]

But now to your point. Please explain, using from the past 10 years - records, RPI, NCAA appearances, attendance and athletic dept. revenue/expenditures - to show how Belmont is a "very similar" program to Creighton.

Belmont may be as reasonable a replacement as there is available, but as long as they have to compete with Vandy (in the same city), UT and Memphis for bandwagon fans, they will never have the advantages Creighton has enjoyed.

I'd be happy to do some more research on this and produce some attendance numbers, revenue, etc. What I can tell you right now is that in the last decade Creighton has been to the NCAA Tournament 5 times. Belmont will make it a 6th appearance in the last ten years when they dance this time around. Creighton has exactly one more NCAA tourney win in that period and they have the same number of Sweet Sixteens.

True but Belmont had an easier path than Creighton. I'm not saying the league shouldn't add Belmont I'm just saying. In all honesty, none of the school names mentioned interest me a lot but Shocktop 42 raises an interesting point. How many of the current members would excite anyone if they had to apply for membership at this time?

I think one private school will be added. However, I find the idea of increasing the league to 12 schools for some reason intrigues me.

[jwa123]

Murray State.

I keep seeing the name Murray State being mentioned which is fine if you look through the prism of only basketball BUT Murray State has football and would need a home for that. If the XDSU's are not invited, would you really expect them to vote in favor of Murray State joining the MVFC? Gosh I hope that last sentence doesn't bring out Lakesbison again. I don't see Murray State as a player.

I am also of the opinion that if a school from the western side of the conference can be added that should be done. I think someway should be found to give Wichita some company out west instead of having them head east all of the time.

[Fargobison]

The MVFC wants no part of a huge footprint - NDSU made it in only because the eastern schools were promised they'd only have to go west at most 1 time per year....turns out they were lied too and that isn't the case. They won't let that happen again.

Nobody was lied to, the eastern schools agreed to the possibility of multiple trips to the Dakotas when they voted to add the University of South Dakota.

I wouldn't be against the MVFC adding more teams. NDSU really doesn't care about travel, we just want to be in a strong league. I guess Murray couldn't be any worse than USD, but if they wanted to compete they'd probably need to invest at least $500k a year into their football budget.

[Western4Life]

I don't see the MVC split being such a concern it keeps the league from adding teams they need to protect the brand from FBS defections. While not ideal, protecting yourself from further expansion seems wisest in the current times. Also, CU will not be replaced by a like school but Belmont is easily the next best thing.

Complaining about road trips to the Dakotas is pretty blah as a Western fan. I know why NDSU can't get in and it isn't their budget, facilities, lack of success... It is location!

Hell, I just lobbied for the addition of Murray St. to allow for an addition of a football playing school to the SL. None of this will be ideal. It would work best to stick with Belmont, Murray St., and ORU/Valpo to ensure the foot print is maintained along with balance. There are other leagues health to consider in additions though they won't be a priority they must be consciously thought of.

Snagging 2 teams from the OVC allows the SL to cuts it current worst two travel partners UIPUI & FW to the OVC. Sadly we'd lose Oakland to the Horizon but we'd be better off long term if this just got over with now. The SL isn't the MVC but our stock has risen dramatically from the MidCon days. Anyone just see the UMKC switch for DU? That said, the SL may be gone if stuff doesn't work in our favor.

Don't worry about the Murray State impact to football, grab them up! They'd be able to pony up $ for the schedule they'd have in front of them. A lot easier to sell ticket in the MVC/MVFC than the OVC. Western could EASILY sell 5,500 hoops tickets playing MVC schools (we just did against South Dakota ). The MVC and SL needs to work well so we can split the difference on football additions is the main point I wanted to address here. Everyone needs stability.

[SDSUFan]

The MVFC is completely separate from the MVC, if it is a football school they can deal with that on their own....and this is from a fan of a football school. The MVFC wants no part of a huge footprint - NDSU made it in only because the eastern schools were promised they'd only have to go west at most 1 time per year....turns out they were lied too and that isn't the case. They won't let that happen again.

Richmond is already affiliate members of another football conference (the CAA) so they'll be fine there.


If it's a school with football it will be Murray State and either NDSU or YSU will be encouraged to find a new home for football.

So if Murray State comes aboard, they will tell the 2 time defending National champion to take a hike?