MVC in preliminary talks with ORU?

[KingTut]

Right now, ORU is squarely a low-major.

This year, they had two Division I home games in the non-conference (not counting bracketbusters). They play a bunch of guarantee games. They get 5,000 fans for the biggest home games (butts in seats, not their nonsensical listed attendance). They get 1,500-2,000 (and that might be generous) for most home games.

They're Evansville with a worse facility, without the fertile recruiting ground and in an area that doesn't care about college basketball. What exactly are they adding? They're second in their own city, a city that, again, doesn't care about college basketball.

[saluki762]

My major concern would be making a move before having a final answer on the availability of Dayton and/or St Louis.

That aside, I'm ok with Oral Bob. Not the sexy pick. But not a lot of downside. Of course you want to find the next great thing in expansion, though.

I think it's worth playing a season at 9 teams to see if something opens up, before adding Oral Bob.

St. Louis is not an option. Please eliminate them from this discussion.

Truth. Even with no invite to the new Big East, the only way SLU leaves the A-10 is if it completely dissolves. The SLU admin is squarely concentrated on increasing east coast enrollment. Their inclusion in the A-10 has increased applications/admissions from this area by over 20%

The new Big East is the ultimate goal for SLU but there is more to SLU's thinking than athletics. I would venture to say that the CAA would be in play for SLU before the MVC. SLU is Big East bound or firmly planted in the A-10 for all intensive purposes.

Take my info for what it is worth but I am a SLU alum who still lives in STL and has several friends that still work for the university. Quality of schools in the MVC plays nothing into their mindset. It is all about maintaining a presence outside of the midwest.

[EvilleAce]

Right now, ORU is squarely a low-major.

This year, they had two Division I home games in the non-conference (not counting bracketbusters). They play a bunch of guarantee games. They get 5,000 fans for the biggest home games (butts in seats, not their nonsensical listed attendance). They get 1,500-2,000 (and that might be generous) for most home games.

They're Evansville with a worse facility, without the fertile recruiting ground and in an area that doesn't care about college basketball. What exactly are they adding? They're second in their own city, a city that, again, doesn't care about college basketball.

How do you know this area (Tulsa) doesn't care about college basketball? Do you live here? Tulsa hosted the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the NCAA Tournament in 2011 and the BOK Center was packed for all sessions. I know, I was there.

Oklahoma is football crazy but Tulsa is basically a sports crazy town. AA Baseball, NBA D-League, Hockey, Arena Football (until it was stolen by San Antonio last year), and OKC Thunder (one hour away).

[unipanther99]

How do you know this area (Tulsa) doesn't care about college basketball? Do you live here? Tulsa hosted the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the NCAA Tournament in 2011 and the BOK Center was packed for all sessions. I know, I was there.

When was the last time a NCAA men's tournament site wasn't packed? I don't think that is a good judge of the kind of support and/or attendance ORU would receive as a member of the MVC.

[unipanther99]

Schools like Bradley, Evansville, and Drake can attract attendance and support from the general population of their cities, even from those with no formal connection to their universities. Creighton certainly did that very well. Does a school like Oral Roberts University move the pulse of random Joe-blow sports fan in the city of Tulsa? Or do you pretty much have to have an affiliation with the church or university before you show up at a basketball game?

[GoShockers89]

ORU plays FOURTH fiddle in the city of Tulsa (OSU/OU/Tulsa....then ORU in the distance). That alone gives them the lowest ceiling of any expansion candidate. They are no better than Nebraska-Omaha (and I think that school is pukeworthy as well).

We are truly becoming a garbage league if the Presidents think that adding the 4th most popular school in a city of 400,000 and an undergrad enrollment of 2,700 is the best we can attract.

[PantherSigEp]

Perhaps I'm wrong but I believe the example chosen was more to highlight a recent lack of forward thinking in the priorities of ORU. They have every right to do what they do as a university but I think we all want a conference member that will be willing to think of the MVC as an organization that it can positively contribute to and help all of the organizations grow and further acheive in all capacities. Outside of a few above-average athletics I'm not sure where Oral Roberts fits that role.

Why would ORU's stance on that one issue keep other MVC organizations from "growing and further achieving in all capacities"? Are BYU, Notre Dame and countless other schools no longer top notch academic institutions for having similar values?

In your personal definition, would objecting to Obamacare's requirement that health insurance be required to pay for birth control for everyone be considered a "lack of forward thinking?" Because if it is, than about every single religious institution, not just those that are catholic, are off the table since they all joined a lawsuit originated by Notre Dame challenging the law.

When evaluating every single school's political position on individual issues as part of the expansion process, you will rapidly run out of candidates.

I simply stated that I believed another poster had focused on one issue to highlight what they thought to be a number of other issues they had with the institution in question. I couldn't say I was even aware of ORU's stance on LGBT issues and while I don't agree with it, they have the right to have that stance. I simply offered potential clarity for what someone else had said.

Now, the remainder of my post posited, as a small, private and religiously-affiliated school of about 2,500, one has to question what ORU can really bring to the table for improving the MVC as a whole, rather than sticking out for themselves and looking for the next gravy train. Like others have already asked, is there really anything exciting about Oral Roberts joining the Valley?

[KingTut]

Right now, ORU is squarely a low-major.

This year, they had two Division I home games in the non-conference (not counting bracketbusters). They play a bunch of guarantee games. They get 5,000 fans for the biggest home games (butts in seats, not their nonsensical listed attendance). They get 1,500-2,000 (and that might be generous) for most home games.

They're Evansville with a worse facility, without the fertile recruiting ground and in an area that doesn't care about college basketball. What exactly are they adding? They're second in their own city, a city that, again, doesn't care about college basketball.

How do you know this area (Tulsa) doesn't care about college basketball? Do you live here? Tulsa hosted the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the NCAA Tournament in 2011 and the BOK Center was packed for all sessions. I know, I was there.

Oklahoma is football crazy but Tulsa is basically a sports crazy town. AA Baseball, NBA D-League, Hockey, Arena Football (until it was stolen by San Antonio last year), and OKC Thunder (one hour away).

It wasn't packed for the NCAAs.

Tulsa averaged 14,274 fans at the BOK Center for the second and third rounds of the NCAA Tournament. That was seventh out of eight sites for those rounds, ahead of only Tucson (10,554).

http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerf ... laho435750

And that was with Kansas there. Without Kansas, attendance would've been pitiful.

Arena football team moved because they couldn't draw enough to pay rent in the fancy new arena and pay salaries in AF1 (vs the previous AF2 league they were in).

Baseball gets support. The D-League basketball team gets no support. (this photo is a few years old, but still):
http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/457569_G.jpg

[EvilleAce]

Right now, ORU is squarely a low-major.

This year, they had two Division I home games in the non-conference (not counting bracketbusters). They play a bunch of guarantee games. They get 5,000 fans for the biggest home games (butts in seats, not their nonsensical listed attendance). They get 1,500-2,000 (and that might be generous) for most home games.

They're Evansville with a worse facility, without the fertile recruiting ground and in an area that doesn't care about college basketball. What exactly are they adding? They're second in their own city, a city that, again, doesn't care about college basketball.

How do you know this area (Tulsa) doesn't care about college basketball? Do you live here? Tulsa hosted the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the NCAA Tournament in 2011 and the BOK Center was packed for all sessions. I know, I was there.

Oklahoma is football crazy but Tulsa is basically a sports crazy town. AA Baseball, NBA D-League, Hockey, Arena Football (until it was stolen by San Antonio last year), and OKC Thunder (one hour away).

It wasn't packed for the NCAAs.

Tulsa averaged 14,274 fans at the BOK Center for the second and third rounds of the NCAA Tournament. That was seventh out of eight sites for those rounds, ahead of only Tucson (10,554).

http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/printerf ... laho435750

And that was with Kansas there. Without Kansas, attendance would've been pitiful.

Arena football team moved because they couldn't draw enough to pay rent in the fancy new arena and pay salaries in AF1 (vs the previous AF2 league they were in).

Baseball gets support. The D-League basketball team gets no support. (this photo is a few years old, but still):
http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/457569_G.jpg

You are trying way too hard. I’m not here to defend ORU. I’m basically hoping they get in the Valley because I would love to drive a mile to watch MVC basketball. Yes, I’m selfish.

What team do you root for, I would love to know.

[Lakesbison]

Oru ran from the summit because NDSU/SDSU dominated them so why wouldn't mvc take a team that's ALREADY in the MVFC NDSU !