UIC joining Valley

[rlh04d]

Why doesn't Belmont get any support on here? They seem to have a better program in a big city.

No clue. Belmont would be the best option, easily. Records and average RPIs over the last five years, plus attendance/stadium size and market size:

Belmont:
119-45, 79.8
2,012 (5,000)
Nashville TV Market ranked #29

Detroit:
79-80, 158
2,272 (8,295)
Detroit TV Market ranked #11

UIC
52-98, 242.4
2,934 (6,958)
Chicago TV Market ranked #3

The only thing Belmont has going against it is market size and poor attendance. But it would still be the best market in the Valley, and able to compete immediately in basketball. UIC might have a great market, but they're never going to be relevant there, and would be atrocious in the Valley.

[illini83]

Belmont has 6700 undergrads, UIC 15,000. UIC's south campus expansion has increased the number of students living on campus. UIC has $300M in research funding, over double the rest of the MVC combined. UIC's basketball team beat Colorado St., Northwestern, Iona, and has a Big Ten All-Frosh team transfer coming in next year. Travel to Chicago, and specifically UIC, is perhaps the easiest in the country.

Biggest downside is UIC students aren't real good at showing up for games, so attendance is weak. MVC will help in terms of alumni in Chicago going to games.

They are getting a really good baseball stadium, although baseball weather in Chicago isn't the best...

[rlh04d]

Belmont has 6700 undergrads, UIC 15,000. UIC's south campus expansion has increased the number of students living on campus. UIC has $300M in research funding, over double the rest of the MVC combined. UIC's basketball team beat Colorado St., Northwestern, Iona, and has a Big Ten All-Frosh team transfer coming in next year. Travel to Chicago, and specifically UIC, is perhaps the easiest in the country.

Biggest downside is UIC students aren't real good at showing up for games, so attendance is weak. MVC will help in terms of alumni in Chicago going to games.

I don't doubt that UIC would be a good add if they were, you know, good. It's just that there's never been any evidence of that happening. You had an okay team this year, and that's progress ... but it's one year of progress.

If I'm arguing for WSU to join another conference, I'd point out the many things we can contribute to that conference. UIC can't make that argument ... all you can make it "we'd be better if we were in the Valley, and eventually that might someday make us able to contribute to the Valley."

I don't mind bringing you guys in, but it needs to be done as part of a three team move where we're adding teams that can actually contribute to the league now rather than maybe ten years down the road. Getting UIC isn't a win for us, except maybe a ways down the road. I'm okay with one team being added as a hope for the future if we're going to 12 ... but replacing Creighton with UIC as a one-for-one move is craziness.

[Chuck A]

The only thing Belmont has going against it is market size and poor attendance. But it would still be the best market in the Valley, and able to compete immediately in basketball. UIC might have a great market, but they're never going to be relevant there, and would be atrocious in the Valley.

NEVER SAY NEVER! UIC was quite relevant back in our brief heyday when we made a few appearances in the Dance and NIT. With the Coach and staff we have in place now, we'll be relevant again. By the way, if we are invited to the Valley, we will not be atrocious!

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

As I learn more about UIC, I am starting to warm to them. I absolutely loathe Chicago but I can get past some of that if the Flames or whatever they are called can compete in this conference. Still like ORU or Belmont more, but if we have to pillage the Horizon League then let's grab these guys and not Loyola or Valpo or whatever.

[cpacmel]

Why doesn't Belmont get any support on here? They seem to have a better program in a big city.

Not speaking for anyone besides me, but Belmont has had some great years, including this year. But their fan support has been bad. This year they were 26-6 and 13-0 at home and they only drew 2,700 per game on average. Their arena maxes out at 5k too currently.

[squirrel]

Why doesn't Belmont get any support on here? They seem to have a better program in a big city.

Not speaking for anyone besides me, but Belmont has had some great years, including this year. But their fan support has been bad. This year they were 26-6 and 13-0 at home and they only drew 2,700 per game on average. Their arena maxes out at 5k too currently.

That's a fair point, cpacmel. Although, I look at it this way, they've been Division I now 17 years. During that time, they have had 3 different conference situations. During their 11-year run in the A-Sun, they did enjoy the continued rivalry with crosstown Lipscomb (who also reclassified from NAIA in the late 1990's).

If they joined the Valley, it would be their 4th league situation in 17 years. It takes some time to develop familiarity among the fan base.

They also have a sugar daddy and a whole potential pool of them if they played their cards right.

[m-v-c]

Why doesn't Belmont get any support on here? They seem to have a better program in a big city.

Other than Vince Gill and a couple country music stars attending the games, Belmont is a non-factor in Nashville. It's unfortunate, because they've been good. But when you've made 6 NCAA tourneys in 8 years in a town that big...and only draw 2,700 fans a game in a nice, newer facility? Terrible. At least schools like Loyola or UMKC, one can hope that if they win, perhaps enough in the area would catch onto them to generate a little buzz. If Belmont were in the MVC maybe they get a tad more attention and their attendance picks up some, but that's still stone-cold SEC country (and as an aside, personally don't think their finesse style would translate well in the Valley; they've often looked overmatched against more athletic or physical teams). But overall, you're not getting a market, you're getting a basketball program that unfortunately won't make a dent in the conscious of its town.

[m-v-c]

Why doesn't Belmont get any support on here? They seem to have a better program in a big city.

Not speaking for anyone besides me, but Belmont has had some great years, including this year. But their fan support has been bad. This year they were 26-6 and 13-0 at home and they only drew 2,700 per game on average. Their arena maxes out at 5k too currently.

That's a fair point, cpacmel. Although, I look at it this way, they've been Division I now 17 years. During that time, they have had 3 different conference situations. During their 11-year run in the A-Sun, they did enjoy the continued rivalry with crosstown Lipscomb (who also reclassified from NAIA in the late 1990's).

If they joined the Valley, it would be their 4th league situation in 17 years. It takes some time to develop familiarity among the fan base.

They also have a sugar daddy and a whole potential pool of them if they played their cards right.

This is true, and I think one could make the same case for Oral Roberts (which played in the Mid-Continent/Summit against a bunch of schools around the country that its fans probably could care less about). But as you mentioned, they did have long-time rival Lipscomb still in the A-Sun, they played East Tennessee State, and often have played a lot of regional teams like Middle Tennessee or from the OVC even before joining it. Really there isn't an excuse for their attendance, as much as that program has won and with its connections to the music industry there, they should draw better. If they haven't after 6 NCAA tourney trips in 8 years, not sure what it's going to take. Let them grow more, if they're different in 5 years, then let's talk.

[kcmsaluki12]

UIC certainly isn't the worst choice out there. I would be ok with them. Let's face, all the programs the MVC is after have significant flaws, and none are perfect, but IMO, UIC is a solid choice.