Just wait till next year

[cu36]

This is what I would like to see out of WSU.

Celebrate what you accomplished this year. Understand that not many teams get to experience what you have just done. Realize that it was hard work that brought you to that point. Show appreciation to your seniors for guiding you as they have. Watch the game Monday and stew over the narrow margine that you missed that game by. Use that as your motivation to work in the offseason. Don't focus on what you lose but realize what you retain. Incorporate what you gain without expecting them to fulfill the roles you lost, they are irreplaceable. Expect Early and Baker to play leadership roles and instill upon them the expectations to fulfill those roles(they are great players and can/should be able to handle that). Focus a little on playing under control(the only times I have seen WSU lose a game they shouldn't it was because the started playing too fast). And enjoy what is to come because if they continue to play as they have, each one of them is going to get more out of playing for a 'mid major' than most kids get playing at a 'major' conference.

[shoxrox]

So....anyways...not sure where you are going with this rlh. I didn't see any slights in this thread.

Also, wasn't a CU fan that said "dumb JUCO?"

Nope, it was a UNI fan. Kyle to be exact.

And it definitely was a slight. Nice to see an MSU fan, of all people, taking a swipe at WSU for their recent success. Yep, WSU cheated their way with this run. It's the only logical explanation.

[Aargh]

When Marshall got to WSU, there were only 7 players on the roster (I think that's the number) and one of them was academically challenged and not a basketball player. The recruiting class Turgeon left totally fell apart. It was too late to start recruiting any quality HS players. He had no choice but to go the JuCo route.

When you've only got a guy for two years, sometimes that's not enough time to find and sign a quality HS player to replace the 2-year guy. Then you've got to go back to the JuCo ranks to get some experience at the position. That happened to Marshall in his early years. He got into a pattern where a JuCo guy was always needed. He's still there with front court players. Then 2 things happened:

1) Marshall hired one of the most respected JuCo coaches in the nation as an assistant and the flood gates from the JuCo ranks were opened. WSU had a contact and an "in" with about every JuCo coach, so recruiting JuCo players became a lot easier.

2) Marshall started having a lot of success with JuCo's. Top-level JuCo players started wanting to play for him.

When you have an opportunity to sign a guy like Early or sign a HS player at the same position who's probably a top 150 - 200 player (if you're lucky), the choice is pretty easy.

The number of guys paying their own way is surprising. Baker was lightly recruited because of the size of his HS. Marshll gave him the best available option for playing for a winner, and Baker liked what he saw at WSU, so he was delighted to pay one to get 4. The situation with Coleby has already been explained.

Armstead gets his own paragraph. Armstead wanted out of Oregon the moment Altman replaced the previous coach. Altman convinced him to stay and then drastically cut his minutes from the previous year. I introduced Armstead to another fan who didn't recognize him at a WSU event. I said that Armstead "wanted to play for someone who hated Altman as much as he did". Armstead got big grin on his face and said, "you got that right". Plus, Armstead's one year of JuCo ball was at Chipola when Greg Heiar (WSU asst. coach) was the coach at Chipola.

It wouldn't surprise me if Altman refused to release Armstead, forcing Armsteaed to pay his own way no matter where he went.

[valleychamp]

Armstead gets his own paragraph. Armstead wanted out of Oregon the moment Altman replaced the previous coach. Altman convinced him to stay and then drastically cut his minutes from the previous year. I introduced Armstead to another fan who didn't recognize him at a WSU event. I said that Armstead "wanted to play for someone who hated Altman as much as he did". Armstead got big grin on his face and said, "you got that right". Plus, Armstead's one year of JuCo ball was at Chipola when Greg Heiar (WSU asst. coach) was the coach at Chipola.

It wouldn't surprise me if Altman refused to release Armstead, forcing Armsteaed to pay his own way no matter where he went.

First of all, the shot at Altman is unfounded and pretty ridiculous. I dislike Creighton as much as anyone, but what has Altman ever done that would lead you to believe he would refuse to release a kid? Come on.

As for the Armstead story, I almost feel like there has to be more to his story than what has been printed. I have a hard time believing that a kid would willingly walk away from a scholarship at a BCS conference school to pay his own way for a year someplace else, especially a guy that was a JR who had already transferred in to Oregon from a JUCO and only had 1 yr of eligibility left.

If WSU was going to give him a two year scholarship, fine. If he came from a wealthy family where money was not an issue, fine. Both of which were not the case to my knowledge. It makes no sense whatsoever for a guy like that to walk away from a free education to pay a year's tuition at a different school.

[Khan4Cats]

Champ, it's called competitive fire and playing time. Armstead wanted a chance to play and wasn't going to get it at Oregon. Whether Altman released him or not we may not know, but it was clear his PT was cut in the year Altman was there and he wanted a chance to get on the floor. Happens a lot with players that maybe see time early and get recruited over or there is a coaching change or see minutes cut because of injury. And a year's worth of tuition at a public school isn't that bad when compared to other options. UNI has used the 5 for 4 method several times recently.

A surprise would have been someone leaving a Valley school for a BcS offer (ala Rice from Drake) rather than leaving a BcS for a Valley school (like Armstead, Echenique, Washpun....). Those players are short on time to find a match often and will look for a team where they have a connection. Armstead had his JUCO coach, Washpun had his AAU teammate and good friend, Echenique had been recruited heavily by CU, etc.

[valleychamp]

Right "competitive fire" aside, it still doesn't make a ton of sense for a kid to pay his own way to sit out a whole year when he had a free ride already.

A quick search of his stats shows he played nearly 28 mpg his last year at Oregon which is roughly what he played this year at Wichita. Its not like he was relegated to the bench at Oregon. This was a good D1 player, even if he wanted to play his final year of eligibility at anyplace other than Oregon, surely he plenty of other options to get a scholarship.

Regardless, Wichita was lucky to have him because he was a perfect guy to bridge that gap that they had for a freshman PG.

[rlh04d]

Right "competitive fire" aside, it still doesn't make a ton of sense for a kid to pay his own way to sit out a whole year when he had a free ride already.

If he was told flat out that he wasn't going to be playing as much the next year, it makes complete sense. You're comparing his last shot at making a bid for the NBA to paying for one year of school as if they're the same thing. To you or I it might be, to him it's different. If he felt Oregon wasn't going to have him as a starter or give him enough minutes to make his last statement, it makes complete sense that he would go somewhere that would allow him to do so. Obviously WSU told him that they didn't have a scholarship for him the first year, but he would be a starter the second year, and being a starter is what he wanted.

On a different note, he now owns the single season steals record at both Oregon and Wichita State.

[shock]

SCHOLIE
PG- Fred VanVleet (So), Denzel Bowles(Fr), Ri'an Holland(Fr)
2G- Ron Baker(RS-So), Tekele Cotton (Jr)
3G/SF- Evan Wessel (Jr Pending medical redshirt), Nick Wiggins (Sr), DeRail Green (RS FR)
PF- Cle Early (SR), Shaq Morris (FR), Darius Carter (JR), Jake White (JR)
C- Kadeem Coleby (SR), Earl Watson (JR, I think), CJ Lufile(SR)

Walk-on
G- JR Simon FR, Zach Bush RS FR

Roster as of now.

[DoubleJayAlum]

Armstead gets his own paragraph. Armstead wanted out of Oregon the moment Altman replaced the previous coach. Altman convinced him to stay and then drastically cut his minutes from the previous year. I introduced Armstead to another fan who didn't recognize him at a WSU event. I said that Armstead "wanted to play for someone who hated Altman as much as he did". Armstead got big grin on his face and said, "you got that right". Plus, Armstead's one year of JuCo ball was at Chipola when Greg Heiar (WSU asst. coach) was the coach at Chipola.

It wouldn't surprise me if Altman refused to release Armstead, forcing Armsteaed to pay his own way no matter where he went.

This is factually incorrect.

Dana did talk Armstead into staying DA's first year. That part is true. However, the rest is a complete fabrication.

After that first year, Dana wanted Armstead to leave. And told him to do so. Dana didn't refuse to release Armstead (that is absolutely made up) because Dana wanted him out of there. The rumors that I've heard were that Armstead had essentially flunked out and the staff was sick and tired of having to babysit him 24/7 (making sure that he went to class daily, did his homework, etc). Because of the academic concerns, Armstead did not have a lot of schools lining up to pay two years so that he could play one. Armstead got in touch with his JUCO coach (Heiar) who agreed to put in a good word for Armstead with Marshall, but even Heiar couldn't get Marshall to give Armstead a scholarship for the year he was required to sit out (perhaps - and this is total speculation by me - because Marshall wasn't sure that Armstead would even be able to get his academics in order during that year).

That is how he ended up at WSU.

[bleach]

All 3 cases make sense and add up to a HUGE advantage for the Shox.
As I said to start this, if the other schools want to compete with that, they will have to find out how to get players to "pay their own way" like the Shocks have.

ALL I ever said was that the Shocks posters should quit talking about ways to be like them if this wasn't part of the equation.