Bradley to A10?

[DoubleJayAlum]

Any addition of Bradley over VCU or WSU, even if Bradley turns the program around, is more about a stubborn refusal to be anything but private schools (while still turning away from the Catholic characteristic) than any real desire to strengthen the conference.

First of all, the Big East already "turned away from the Catholic characteristic" by selecting Butler.

Secondly, I would hardly call a decision to stick with all private schools "stubborn." The fact of the matter is that by doing business with all private schools there are several inherent benefits. For example, the schools/conference are not at the whims of politicians and decisions of boards of regents that have their own agendas. You also aren't subject to random Freedom of Information Act requests and can work under a significantly greater shield of privacy. Finally, and perhaps most importantly to private schools, you have all schools competing under the same sort of academic guidelines -- one school (or a few schools) can't get an advantage by admitting student athletes that would fail to meet the admissions requirements of the other conference members.

When the conference goes to 12, the two added schools will almost certainly be private schools for the reasons mentioned above. My personal feeling is that there will be an attempt to maintain balance between east and west by selecting either St Louis or Dayton from the west and Richmond from the east. Because of the immense preference, as opposed to "stubbornness", to remain private, I do believe that Bradley would be more appealing than WSU if they ever were to be considered expansion candidates. That being said, I don't see the Big East expanding beyond 12 members unless Notre Dame would show interest, which I believe is rather unlikely.

[rlh04d]

You also aren't subject to random Freedom of Information Act requests and can work under a significantly greater shield of privacy. Finally, and perhaps most importantly to private schools, you have all schools competing under the same sort of academic guidelines -- one school (or a few schools) can't get an advantage by admitting student athletes that would fail to meet the admissions requirements of the other conference members.

http://espn.go.com/page2/tvlistings/sho ... cript.html

[DoubleJayAlum]

You also aren't subject to random Freedom of Information Act requests and can work under a significantly greater shield of privacy. Finally, and perhaps most importantly to private schools, you have all schools competing under the same sort of academic guidelines -- one school (or a few schools) can't get an advantage by admitting student athletes that would fail to meet the admissions requirements of the other conference members.

http://espn.go.com/page2/tvlistings/sho ... cript.html

If we are going to reference things from the 1970's, I guess that makes WSu's multiple NCAA probations and rampant cheating relevant, right?

PS - Aaron Ellis got rejected by an SEC school for poor academics. And that was just a few years ago...

[Mikovio]

Sounds like they should add Wichita State, which is ACTUALLY making the NCAA on a consistent basis, making the Final Four, and has a far better market.

Which is again bringing me back to the fact that Bradley would be behind an expansion into public schools. Any addition of Bradley over VCU or WSU, even if Bradley turns the program around, is more about a stubborn refusal to be anything but private schools (while still turning away from the Catholic characteristic) than any real desire to strengthen the conference.

Yes, if you start making consistent runs in the NCAA tournament, Bradley will look far more attractive for expansion -- but I still think you're worse off in the expansion game than Wichita is. And Wichita isn't in a great position either.

In addition to the points made in the next post, they may want to keep publics out because of the inherent advantage they have in the Olympic sports, ie lower tuition for student athletes not on full scholarship.

Wichita is a fine program with a storied past and a bright future. But unfortunately for them, due to geography and their status as a public school lacking football, they're an odd duck in the expansion game. If they had FBS football, they might go to the Mountain West. If they were private, they might be next in line to be asked to the NBE. If they were about 4 states over, they'd have the option of the A-10.

[rlh04d]

Sounds like they should add Wichita State, which is ACTUALLY making the NCAA on a consistent basis, making the Final Four, and has a far better market.

Which is again bringing me back to the fact that Bradley would be behind an expansion into public schools. Any addition of Bradley over VCU or WSU, even if Bradley turns the program around, is more about a stubborn refusal to be anything but private schools (while still turning away from the Catholic characteristic) than any real desire to strengthen the conference.

Yes, if you start making consistent runs in the NCAA tournament, Bradley will look far more attractive for expansion -- but I still think you're worse off in the expansion game than Wichita is. And Wichita isn't in a great position either.

In addition to the points made in the next post, they may want to keep publics out because of the inherent advantage they have in the Olympic sports, ie lower tuition for student athletes not on full scholarship.

Wichita is a fine program with a storied past and a bright future. But unfortunately for them, due to geography and their status as a public school lacking football, they're an odd duck in the expansion game. If they had FBS football, they might go to the Mountain West. If they were private, they might be next in line to be asked to the NBE. If they were about 4 states over, they'd have the option of the A-10.

Undoubtedly.

And much the same, Bradley is a fine program with a storied past and a bright future. But unfortunately for them, due to geography and as a private school without Catholic connections lacking football, they're an odd duck in the expansion game. You will not join the Big East, because you will be unable to increase their TV contract. The A-10 is a possibility if you turn around the basketball program. And ... well, that's it.

As I've said, WSU does not have a good position in the expansion game. Even if we're going to the Final Four every single year, geography hates us. We are, however, a stronger expansion target than Bradley, without any doubt. That is less bragging on WSU's merits than pointing out that Bradley really brings nothing to the expansion game whatsoever, and the only hope of ever being relevant within it is to match WSU's accomplishments in athletics and hope that just being private and a further 500 miles east will be enough to overcome our disadvantages.

You're never going to join the Big East. Or at least not any time in the near future, without an incredible turnaround in your basketball programs future. In fact, I would think your best hope if you were interested in leaving the Valley would be the same as WSU's -- that the A-10 expands westward despite Saint Louis and Dayton leaving. And I don't believe that's happening.

[mvcfan]

You also aren't subject to random Freedom of Information Act requests and can work under a significantly greater shield of privacy. Finally, and perhaps most importantly to private schools, you have all schools competing under the same sort of academic guidelines -- one school (or a few schools) can't get an advantage by admitting student athletes that would fail to meet the admissions requirements of the other conference members.

http://espn.go.com/page2/tvlistings/sho ... cript.html

PS - Aaron Ellis got rejected by an SEC school for poor academics. And that was just a few years ago...

I seem to remember some students like P'Allen Stinnett who had to go to a prep school to become eligible for Div. I. Swopshire just got admitted to Bradley under some academic questions. I think that arrogant people like DJA who wear their pristine robes to show up others need to look at themselves first.

[TheAsianSensation]

Both Bradley and Wichita got screwed a bit by the Big East.

Everyone knew the Big East split would come eventually, and that Xavier, St Louis and Dayton would leave the A-10 for it. But two things killed the MVC:
1) everyone underestimated Creighton's link to the schools, and
2) Butler was never, never ever supposed to be part of the equation, before their final four runs

The Big East split was never supposed to end up being the endgame for Wichita or Bradley (or Drake or so on and so forth). The gameplan was to pick up any scattered pieces from it (i.e., if a Dayton gets left behind, or a DePaul somehow gets dropped for being terrible), then to pick up Butler, a couple other pieces maybe, and become a consistent top 8 conference regularly getting 3 tourney bids and getting increased coverage, as the conferences behind us fall off the map. Instead, Creighton found an out, Butler screwed up everyone's plans, and now the MVC has to fight to not fall off the map too.

[Mikovio]

Undoubtedly.

And much the same, Bradley is a fine program with a storied past and a bright future. But unfortunately for them, due to geography

In terms of location, geography is an issue for Bradley in joining the A-10 assuming SLU and Dayton leave (and even then, still an issue), but if anything, it's an asset for NBE because Peoria is smack dab in the NBE footprint. That means it costs less for bus trips for Marquette, Butler, SLU, DePaul etc Olympic sports.

and as a private school without Catholic connections lacking football,

Well we know Catholicism isn't a deal breaker because, again, Butler was just admitted. Obviously no league that plays FBS football is or ever will be an option.

they're an odd duck in the expansion game. You will not join the Big East, because you will be unable to increase their TV contract.

Why do you assume the NBE never invites a member unless they "increase the TV contract?" If that were the case they would have never invited Creighton to join the C-7, because they're in a smaller market than all of the others (Saint Louis metro is about 2.5x Omaha). If that were the case, Dayton would have never been seriously considered-- as was reported-- because there is no chance that adding Dayton and its 800k market increases the $4 million per team TV payout. If that were the case, there would be no more expansion period, because there aren't any schools out there with command of large markets and who wouldn't decrease their TV contract. Anybody they add in that list of schools is going to command fewer TV dollars than Marquette, Nova, etc.

I think your assumption here is questionable at best. Revenue is of course an overriding concern, but again, a top-40 program that qualifies for the NCAA consistently can pull in millions a year. That's what Creighton brought to the table-- a healthy program with bright prospects that can make up in NCAA shares what it lacks in market size. Bradley certainly isn't there, but it can look a lot different in a few years. It's not that long ago Wichita was 17-17 and in the CBI.

As I've said, WSU does not have a good position in the expansion game. Even if we're going to the Final Four every single year, geography hates us. We are, however, a stronger expansion target than Bradley, without any doubt. That is less bragging on WSU's merits than pointing out that Bradley really brings nothing to the expansion game whatsoever, and the only hope of ever being relevant within it is to match WSU's accomplishments in athletics and hope that just being private and a further 500 miles east will be enough to overcome our disadvantages.

If the program gets back on track, Bradley brings more to the expansion game than the other options. In terms of endowment, willingness to invest, academics, facilities, attendance, tradition, and geography, Bradley is among the top candidates for expansion for the NBE. They may never want to expand, and may never have to replace a member (or may not want to). It's a big if.

You're never going to join the Big East. Or at least not any time in the near future, without an incredible turnaround in your basketball programs future. In fact, I would think your best hope if you were interested in leaving the Valley would be the same as WSU's -- that the A-10 expands westward despite Saint Louis and Dayton leaving. And I don't believe that's happening.

I agree, and I've said as much. Again, all this is predicated on the NBE desiring expansion, and BU turning its program around.

[Jet915]

The Big East is gonna take SLU and either Dayton or Richmond IMO. Bradley would be a good candidate for the A-10; however, with the Big East taking almost all their midwest schools, Bradley would be on an island. The A-10 already pretty much tipped their hand by taking George Mason and Davidson. Sienna has been rumored to be next in line in Albany. They are consolidating on the east coast and are abandoning the midwest. They probably know SLU is gone and possibly Dayton as well.

[Red]

I know Shox fans don't want to admit it, but the membership in the MVC isn't changing unless BCS football somehow lures a team away and dominoes start to fall. No one is calling WSU or anyone else looking to expand their leagues anytime soon.