WSU next year

[BEARZ77]

Is that the same Bears team that was among the youngest in the country but was somehow pretty competitive with WSU (in one of your best years ever) 2 out of the 3 head to head games?

WSU has a few embarrassing losses in their past too. All teams do.

What were the end results in those games? Congrats on the moral victories I guess?

WSU certainly has nothing remotely close to a loss to a SWAC team. That's elite company.


Look, this was all started by an insecure Bear fan who couldn't help himself but open up a topic dedicated to WSU and tried to crash the party. When you go to FINAL FOURS (and no I'm not talking about the CIT Final Four), your room for talk quickly opens. WSU has now backed up their talking. They don't have to prove anybody what their worth is. It's now up to everyone else to prove if they aren't. It's as simple as that. And once again, going to the Final Four gives you the right to expect pretty high things. Not bragging, just saying it like it is. I'm sure you and your fans would be doing the same thing. The first order of business would probably be making the dance though for that.

Again, a Bear fan couldn't take the WSU talk and now we have veered to where we are.

No this is what happens when WSU fans get objective comments when all they want is a love fest. A WSU fan started a thread about how great you'd be on a public MVC board.You want Shocker worship, stay at home and lick your own balls, you want real world discussion then maybe you might be mature enough for a public forum though you don't sound it right yet. None of the points I made were flaming or derogatory, in fact I repeatedly restated why WSU was the favorite. But the point is a few WSU fans even in their best times absolutely can't participate in objective discussion. You don't want intelligent discussion just other fans kissing your arse and it ain't gonna happen except by the insecure when you come on a conference board. The Shocks deserve and got alot of kudos for last year, they deserve and are getting respect heading into next year. But they are a team with some legitimate question marks and if you have trouble seeing those objectively pointed out w/o any real criticism attached, then I suggest you reattach yourself to ya mama's teet cause you ain't ready for the real world son.

[Wufan]

Most fans will over-emphasize their new additions while dismissing those of other schools. As such, I am going to list the record of each school and what is returning/leaving for the top 8 scorers. I'm using top 8 as all teams play at least 8 players significant minutes, but 5-10 are all acceptable replacements if someone wants to look that up. Creighton and Loyola are out of scope due to league affiliation. Please correct me if I have missed anyone's transfers out. * Denotes returning double digit scorer.

Wichita State: 12-6
Return: Early*, Baker, Cotton, Wessel, Wiggins
Lose: Hall, Armstead, Williams

Northern Iowa: 11-7
Return: Tuttle*, Mitchell, Bohannon, Buss, Rank
Lose: James, Sonnen, Koch

Evansville: 10-8
Return: Balentine, Jones, Mock, Jahr, Sawvell
Lose: Ryan, Cox, Taylor

Indiana State: 9-9
Return: Odum*, Arop*, Gant, Cummings, Smith, Eitel, Brown
Lose: Mahurin

Illinois State: 8-10
Return: Allen, Zeisloft, Keane
Lose: Carmichael, Brown, Hill, Wilkins, Ekey

Missouri State: 7-11
Return: Marshall*, Kirk, Thurman, Scheer, Williams
Lose: Downing, Pickens, Wilson

Bradley: 7-11
Return: Lemon*, Pickett*, Prosser, Crawford, Bell
Lose: Simms-Edwards, Egolf, Shayok

Drake: 7-11
Return: Van Deest, Carter,
Lose: Simons, Hines, Clark, King, Mason, Jeffers

Southern Illinois: 6-12
Return: Jackson*, Beane, Swan, Pendleton
Lose: Early, Daniels, Brown-Surles, Lindsay

[Wufan]

Based on my evaluation above, WSU, UNI, and Evansville all lose and return roughly the same amount of talent. It is therefore fair to say that the standings will reflect WSU as +2 versus UE and +1 versus UNI, unless of course one of the teams has a large influx of talent. The confidence interval here is low, but these three teams should cluster in the top half of the league.

Indiana State Returns more than anyone and loses less. At 9-9, it can safely be assumed that the Sycamores will be a better team and that should reflect a better record. Probably a 2 game upswing. Indiana State should overtake at least one of the teams listed above.

Bradley and Missouri State return a lot and lose a little. At 7-11 last year, a two game improvement seems likely. I give MSU the advantage on talent, but both teams will be mid-pack.

Illinois State and Drake lose a ton and return very little. Ill. St gets the advantage here based on talent and having a second year coack (versus brand new). Both teams will be worse.

SIU will be bad.

Projected records based on what I know about the above teams (including my bias on incoming talent) and will wildly guess for Loyola Chicago:

WSU: 14-4
Indiana State: 12-6
UNI: 12-6
Evansville: 11-7
MSU: 9-9
Bradley: 8-10
Loyola Chicago: 7-11
Illinois State: 7-11
Drake: 5-15
SIU: 5-15

[DUBulldog]

Drake: 7-11
Return: Van Deest, Carter,
Lose: Simons, Hines, Clark, King, Mason, Jeffers

Not trying to minimize what Drake lost, but I did want to point out that Drake will add in 2 players this season who were among the top 8 two years ago, but didn't play last season. (Hawley and Madison). So, it wouldn't be a total stretch to say that Drake return four "top 8" players, rather than just 2.

[Wufan]

Good point. Also, I know that MSU is returning Gulley from two years ago. I left those types of additions out for simplicity, but it really must be considered when establishing pre-season rankings.

[glm38]

Wufan - its a minor point but MSU is not returning Wilson.

[BEARZ77]

Good point. Also, I know that MSU is returning Gulley from two years ago. I left those types of additions out for simplicity, but it really must be considered when establishing pre-season rankings.

And with Gulley, that is a huge consideration. You're talking someone who was a Juco AA, came in and despite playing second fiddle to Weems , averaged 10 ppg, 6 rbs, shot 50% fg, 37% 3pts, and led the team in steals. He averaged 24 ppg his last year in juco. If healthy, and there's every reason to believe he will be 100%, he's a legitimate all Valley candidate. His year was not much different statistically from Early's 1st year other than a few down in PPG, but Early didn't have an offense centered around Weems like Jarmar did. I'm not saying he's as talented as Early, but I am saying he's one of the better talents in this league and will have a definite impact coming back. Given Kirk finished the year strong, we have 3 legitimate double figure scorers returning[ actually a 4th when you consider Addo averaged right at that as a sophmore at N.Colorado], 3 other players who have started multiple D-1 games, a really solid juco wing player in Mvoueka, some legitimate size this time around, a top 10 rated prep shooter in Ruder and a guy in Thomas who I think is gonna really shock people at how good he will be when it's all said and done. I don't see us finishing worse than 4th[ 12-6 would be about right] and think 2nd is well in reach. I respect other teams and know they will see their prospects very similar, but there's no one in the conference we can't match up with on the court talent or depth wise this year. I just don't know how good our staff is yet.

[shoxrox]

Wichita State will have the first and second best teams in the Valley next year. You can save this quote.

If that's the case then we'll expect WSU to completely run away from the rest of the league.

It makes them feel better.

Welcome back butter. Gonna be another great year to be a Redbird?

[shoxrox]

No this is what happens when WSU fans get objective comments when all they want is a love fest. A WSU fan started a thread about how great you'd be on a public MVC board.You want Shocker worship, stay at home and lick your own balls, you want real world discussion then maybe you might be mature enough for a public forum though you don't sound it right yet. None of the points I made were flaming or derogatory, in fact I repeatedly restated why WSU was the favorite. But the point is a few WSU fans even in their best times absolutely can't participate in objective discussion. You don't want intelligent discussion just other fans kissing your arse and it ain't gonna happen except by the insecure when you come on a conference board. The Shocks deserve and got alot of kudos for last year, they deserve and are getting respect heading into next year. But they are a team with some legitimate question marks and if you have trouble seeing those objectively pointed out w/o any real criticism attached, then I suggest you reattach yourself to ya mama's teet cause you ain't ready for the real world son.

Now we got em in defensive mode!

Ok, I think Missouri State is going to suck, per usual, and coast to a 6th place finish, ever so slightly missing out on another Thursday Night Deluxe.

You have big question marks in multiple areas. The only team that will challenge WSU is Indiana State. Your pipe dream is also now over. Welcome to the real world, son.

[rlh04d]

Crown them, if WSU loses a game in the league Marshall's seat should be getting warm. That Louisiana school for the blind transfer will be too much. Not sure how anyone expects to compete ever again. Good thing the shocks are headed to the WAC soon.

Ha, Ha. Ok you win. The Shockers will be lucky to win the league next year. The other teams may do it, and the odds may be as much as 50/50. I just hope that the Shockers are up to it. Good Luck to the rest of the MVC.

Expecting a team coming off the Final Four with the best returning roster and at least top 3 recruiting class to win is absurd. Clearly UNI losing three of their top four scorers will win, or Missouri State coming off an 11-22 season, or Illinois State returning something like two players ...

It's all just hubris and ego from WSU fans. Clearly we can't possibly compete next year.