Poaching in NCAA Basketball - Hinson speaks

by **Snaggletooth** » June 23rd, 2013, 8:02 am

Several high profile examples brought up in this article from the MVC

http://www.kansas.com/2013/06/22/2859552/college-basketball-transfers-are.html

“Poaching,” Hinson says.

“It’s already a mess,” he adds, “it’s just getting ready to be really bad for programs at the mid-major level.”

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by **jackwagon** » June 23rd, 2013, 9:24 am

Amen!! That is why when mid majors like WSU make a run to the final four it is all the more sweeter. The whole system from money, exposure, scheduling, and now transferring is set up to favor the big boys. Yet the MVC will continue to be a thorn in the side of BCS schools through it all!

by **MVCfans** » June 23rd, 2013, 10:26 am

I realized the system was broken when Seth Curry left Liberty for Duke. If Duke, Kentucky, etc can find a player who was overlooked in recruiting and bring them in after they've experienced success at their initial school, it's bad for college basketball.

by **Wufan** » June 23rd, 2013, 11:19 am

"Then there’s the case of Jon Ekey, a Kansas City native who spent his first four seasons at Illinois State. Ekey, Hinson says, would have been one of the best players in the Missouri Valley next season. Instead, he’ll spend next season at Illinois, a graduate transfer in the Big Ten. Hinson doesn’t blame Ekey, of course. The coach that recruited him to Illinois State, Tim Jankovich, is gone now, and Ekey had the chance for a fresh start."

Interesting take on Ekey.

by **rlh04d** » June 23rd, 2013, 3:12 pm

Wufan wrote:"Then there’s the case of Jon Ekey, a Kansas City native who spent his first four seasons at Illinois State. Ekey, Hinson says, would have been one of the best players in the Missouri Valley next season. Instead, he’ll spend next season at Illinois, a graduate transfer in the Big Ten. Hinson doesn’t blame Ekey, of course. The coach that recruited him to Illinois State, Tim Jankovich, is gone now, and Ekey had the chance for a fresh start."

Interesting take on Ekey.

I don't remember a single Illinois State fan on here saying Ekey would have been one of the best players in the MVC next season.

by **CaseyGarrisonforPrez** » June 23rd, 2013, 3:13 pm

Barry is a great spokesperson for the Valley but I don't really agree with him on this one. If a coach can leave and go to another school at any point, why can't a student-athlete? I get the loyalty side of the coin, but it seems like you are placing a talented youngster in a holding cell. It stinks to lose kids. Sure. But I've always been a big propent of letting somebody leave if they don't want to be somewhere.

Coaches need to do a better job of continuing to sell their program. There was talk of Weems leaving Missouri State to go to a school like Kansas or Kansas State for his final year of eligibilty. He didn't fortunately but if he had I would not have harbored ill will towards him. It's a free country.

by **CaseyGarrisonforPrez** » June 23rd, 2013, 3:15 pm

rlh04d wrote:I don't remember a single Illinois State fan on here saying Ekey would have been one of the best players in the MVC next season.

Barry is prone to hyberbole. When he is speaking with conviction he tends to embellish things in an effort to cater to his audience.

by **Wufan** » June 23rd, 2013, 3:43 pm

I wasn't aware that scholarships could now be offered for more than one year until I read the article. I'd be in favor of schools offering whatever they want. If the school breaks the contract prior to the end, then the school loses the schollie for one year, but the player is free to go w/o penalty and vise versa.

So, let's say that Bradley is in on a top 200 kid and he's ready to commit. Then Illinois comes in at the last minute and offers to fill a whole. Bradley could perhaps offer a 4 year deal versus the one year that Illinois will offer. If the later leaves for Illinois, he has to sit out one year. If things don't work out at Bradley and they go in another direction, then the kid is free to play anywhere immediately.

Maybe, the kid decides to go to Illinois straight out of HS. After one year, the kid can leave or the staff can offer an extension.

Isn't that the simplest way to do things?

by **mvcfan** » June 23rd, 2013, 4:02 pm

CaseyGarrisonforPrez wrote:Barry is a great spokesperson for the Valley but I don't really agree with him on this one. If a coach can leave and go to another school at any point, why can't a student-athlete? I get the loyalty side of the coin, but it seems like you are placing a talented youngster in a holding cell. It stinks to lose kids. Sure. But I've always been a big propent of letting somebody leave if they don't want to be somewhere.

The main thrust of the article was not about loyalty at all. The main idea was that a school puts in a lot of resources recruiting and developing a player who wasn't really wanted by BCS schools, and then when he becomes a really good player, those certain schools (who weren't really originally interested) are finding means to contact the player, letting the player know that they are too good not to come to play in the Big Time. If you read Bill Self's comments, he seemed to be a little too embarrassed to embrace the rule but is willing to benefit from it.

by **Aargh** » June 23rd, 2013, 10:03 pm

I have to wonder whether "coaching poaching" isn't as big a problem.

A coach has to have a 5-year contract, or they can't really recruit very well. A successful coach will typically have a 10-yeaar contract.

A bigger school can poach a successful coach from a lower-level school and the school has no recourse to sue the departing coach for violating the contract. Legally, they could sue for damages, but if they did, they would never be able to hire another coach.

If a coach with a multi-year contract (think Lowery at SIU) absolutely tanks a program, that school can't get rid of the damaged goods without paying every penny remaining on the long-term contract.

A school can't put a huge buyout clause in a coaches contract, or they won't be able to hire a coach. I would like to see a legal precedent where a school hiring a successful coach from another school has to pay the rest of that coaches contract to the school losing the coach.

If the coaches are going to insist on long-term contracts, make it more difficult for them to change schools. If a school screws up with an evaluation of a coach (SIU), they are obligated to pay out the contract.