Any chance WSU goes 18-0 in MVC?

[rlh04d]

Hey, look. Yet another thread about WSU has degenerated into ridiculous jealousy. Who would have seen that coming.

I love the strawman argument of attacking WSU for expecting to go 18-0 despite having no instances I've seen of any WSU fans on here actually claiming that's going to happen.

And of course basing the entire argument of which team was better between UNI and WSU in their respective good seasons on which had the better regular season, despite being fully aware that WSU lost two starters for the entire Valley season, plus Hall for a chunk of games. As I recall, we were undefeated before the injuries hit with the Tennessee game.

The intellectual dishonesty is staggering.

As for the argument about the quality of WSU's opponents in the NCAA tournament, I don't know how I could possibly combat vague opinions about teams that most here never watched outside of when they played WSU. I really wish there was some kind of quantitative argument that could be used here. Perhaps one made by one of the most respected minds in college basketball statistics.

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog ... hita_state

Wichita State’s path to the Final Four was far from easy and, in fact, registers as the most difficult in the past 11 years.

[rlh04d]

Question for WSU fans: Are you comfortable with your PG/ball handling situation? I'm no expert about WSU's roster, but it appears that Van Vleet is the only true PG on the roster at the moment (with a couple of freshman PGs coming) - the rest are combos with varying levels of ball-handling ability, no?

If Van Vleet takes a huge step forward, the Shox could run the table. If he doesn't, they'll play a lot of low-scoring grinders and likely end up in the 13-15 win range, IMO.

I'm comfortable with it unless FVV gets hurt. FVV's going to be a tremendous PG.

As for backup ... if we have FVV playing 25+ minutes at the point, Bowles as a true PG backing him up with 5-10 minutes, and Baker or Cotton subbing in as combo guards to make up the difference, I'm not worried about that at all. I think FVV is fully capable of filling Armstead's shoes based on what he showed last year, specifically with the improvement he showed as he played more. Bowles will be brought along slowly. Baker is very capable of playing the point, and if he has any shot at making an NBA roster some day, it'll be as a PG. I think he'll spend most of his WSU career playing the 1 and 2.

If FVV gets hurt, though, I would be concerned with Baker playing 25 minutes at point.

I think we'll probably see maybe five minutes a game with Baker or Bowles as the 1 and FVV the 2, the way Armstead played the 2 last season. Marshall will build depth through the year, the way he always has. I'm only worried if FVV gets hurt early.

[shoxrox]

Hey, look. Yet another thread about WSU has degenerated into ridiculous jealousy. Who would have seen that coming.

I love the strawman argument of attacking WSU for expecting to go 18-0 despite having no instances I've seen of any WSU fans on here actually claiming that's going to happen.

And of course basing the entire argument of which team was better between UNI and WSU in their respective good seasons on which had the better regular season, despite being fully aware that WSU lost two starters for the entire Valley season, plus Hall for a chunk of games. As I recall, we were undefeated before the injuries hit with the Tennessee game.

The intellectual dishonesty is staggering.

As for the argument about the quality of WSU's opponents in the NCAA tournament, I don't know how I could possibly combat vague opinions about teams that most here never watched outside of when they played WSU. I really wish there was some kind of quantitative argument that could be used here. Perhaps one made by one of the most respected minds in college basketball statistics.

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog ... hita_state

Wichita State’s path to the Final Four was far from easy and, in fact, registers as the most difficult in the past 11 years.

These people are obviously smarter than Pomeroy. Don't even bring that up.

Does anybody ever diss Butler in 2011 for losing to powerhouses like Evansville, Milwaukee, or Youngstown State? Or not even winning the weak Horizon League regular season outright? Or losing 5 times to Horizon League opponents? Or beating a clearly overrated Pitt team on the way to the Final Four?

Butler clearly is no Northern Iowa.

[AndShock]

I find it hilarious that Redbird fans now hang their hats on a UNI Sweet 16 from 3 years ago since God knows Redbird fans can't bring up any of their own accomplishments.

[Redbird23]

I find it hilarious that Redbird fans now hang their hats on a UNI Sweet 16 from 3 years ago since God knows Redbird fans can't bring up any of their own accomplishments.

Nobody else finds you funny though

[Redbird23]

I'd take UNI S16 over WSU F4 in a 7 game series (7 games). I'll also say that the Kansas team that UNI beat was better than any team WSU beat to get to ATL. A Shocker fan might come back and say, "Gonzaga was a 1 seed!" Absolutely correct but everyone remembers this past season for the parody.

Let's see - Parody is a mimicing of a person (making fun of them) like they do on Saturday Night Live. Parity is to be equal of value. I think that you meant parity so let's look at it. I think that UNI's season in 2010 was fantastic so I don't like to compare. But since you want to, I will.

Round 1 - WSU beat Pitt who many thought was better than an 8 seed (many said as high as a 4). The Shockers boatraced them in the first round while UNI beat a good UNLV team by a couple. (Advantage Shockers)

Round 2 - WSU beat the #1 Seed Gonzaga while UNI beat a Top seeded KU team (Advantage UNI)

Round 3 - UNI lost to a 5th seeded Michigan by 7, while the Shockers boatraced (not just beat) a #12 seeded La Salle who easily defeated a #4 seeded Big 12 Champ KSU.(I think Advantage Shockers but not by a lot).

Round 4 - UNI already ousted. Shockers win a fourth game and may have boatraced OSU if not if an injury to Early (who sat for a while), and foul trouble to Carl Hall who had to sit for a while too. (Advantage Shockers)

Round 5 - UNI already ousted. The Shockers take the eventual NCAA National Champion Louisville Cardinals down to the wire and an argument could be made that the National Championship game was actually played in the first game of the Final Four. (Advantage Shockers again)

The Shockers of 2013 was a very deep team (once the players who had injuries were back), much deeper than the 2010 UNI team was. The 2010 UNI team was better than the 2010 Shocker team but UNI received everything they could handle that year. This year's Shocker team won't go 18-0 but don't be a dick.

Pitt had no business being a #8 seed
Zags should not of been a #1 seed
LaSalle was actually a good matchup
Ohio St, Shox got lucky at end
Louisville was a great game and sad they lost (not really)

[ShocksRbest]

Ahaha no way in hell. Seems like a thread to set shocker fans up to be arrogant. Same dumb question was being asked about Creighton last year. They will probably go 15-3 or 16-2 at the very best. They lost to siu and got swept by Evansville last season and that was a final four team! Best team in the valley but still they will have their off nights.

Die-hard Shocker fan here, but I agree with you. While we have one of the best road records in the NCAA over the past 3 years we do have our off nights and suffer losses that lead one to go--WTF? I think we lose 2 in the valley because coaches who know us know how to beat us. My hope is we win the Valley and the tournament and make another strong run in the NCAA. I hope we repeat what Louisville did for 2 years...a pair of Final Fours and an NCAA championship the second time around--not arrogant but hopeful.

[shoxrox]

I find it hilarious that Redbird fans now hang their hats on a UNI Sweet 16 from 3 years ago since God knows Redbird fans can't bring up any of their own accomplishments.

I literally just cried.

[CaseyGarrisonforPrez]

These people are obviously smarter than Pomeroy. Don't even bring that up.

Does anybody ever diss Butler in 2011 for losing to powerhouses like Evansville, Milwaukee, or Youngstown State? Or not even winning the weak Horizon League regular season outright? Or losing 5 times to Horizon League opponents? Or beating a clearly overrated Pitt team on the way to the Final Four?

Butler clearly is no Northern Iowa.

I bet you that Horizon League foes gave Butler fans quite a bit of grief for all of that. Nationally they escape that. Much like Wichita State has done. It comes with the territory of being the big dog in a conference.

2010-2011 Pitt does not equal 2012-2013 Pitt. Now I think that WSU critics have been overly critical of their opponents. See I will stand up for WSU when it is warranted. But last year's Pitt team was not nearly as good as the one two years before. Look at their respective seeds.

So in the end I have trouble with a lot of the butthurt over Wichita State's success. Sure I pretty much hate them straight up. But they got to a Final Four so you have to give them that. A lot of people are trolling them at the moment, I think the original post was trying to bait them. That being said, hey if WSU is going to be a big dog then their fans had better get used to the criticism, whether logically based or completely irrational.

[shoxrox]

Pitt had no business being a #8 seed
Zags should not of been a #1 seed
LaSalle was actually a good matchup
Ohio St, Shox got lucky at end
Louisville was a great game and sad they lost (not really)

What a lucky and easy run it was.

Maybe Illinois State will be lucky enough to make the Arch Madness Final Four this year.