Any chance WSU goes 18-0 in MVC?

[shoxrox]

These people are obviously smarter than Pomeroy. Don't even bring that up.

Does anybody ever diss Butler in 2011 for losing to powerhouses like Evansville, Milwaukee, or Youngstown State? Or not even winning the weak Horizon League regular season outright? Or losing 5 times to Horizon League opponents? Or beating a clearly overrated Pitt team on the way to the Final Four?

Butler clearly is no Northern Iowa.

I bet you that Horizon League foes gave Butler fans quite a bit of grief for all of that. Nationally they escape that. Much like Wichita State has done. It comes with the territory of being the big dog in a conference.

2010-2011 Pitt does not equal 2012-2013 Pitt. Now I think that WSU critics have been overly critical of their opponents. See I will stand up for WSU when it is warranted. But last year's Pitt team was not nearly as good as the one two years before. Look at their respective seeds.

So in the end I have trouble with a lot of the butthurt over Wichita State's success. Sure I pretty much hate them straight up. But they got to a Final Four so you have to give them that. A lot of people are trolling them at the moment, I think the original post was trying to bait them. That being said, hey if WSU is going to be a big dog then their fans had better get used to the criticism, whether logically based or completely irrational.

I wasn't saying last year's Pitt was equivalent to 2011 Pitt. I'm just saying Pitt was overrated as a 1 seed that year. Same dumb comparison being made with Gonzaga.

Overall, a fair post Casey. And yes, WSU fans should be used to opposing fans having fits of jealousy and insecurity. I get that. I just wish the logic outweighed the irrational, which is obviously not the case here, especially with Illinois State fans, of all fanbases, setting the houses on fire.

[rlh04d]

Pitt had no business being a #8 seed
Zags should not of been a #1 seed
LaSalle was actually a good matchup
Ohio St, Shox got lucky at end
Louisville was a great game and sad they lost (not really)

You're right, Pitt didn't have any business being an 8 seed. As the #11 team in the country in KemPom's advanced metrics, a #8 seed was incredibly off for them. Their KenPom rating implies that Pitt should have realistically been a #3 seed.

Gonzaga was #4 in KenPom's metrics. As a 1 seed would be 1-4, a #1 seed is exactly what they should have been.

Ranked #51 in KenPom's metrics, La Salle was clearly overmatched against WSU and never had a shot.

WSU definitely got lucky at the end against Ohio State, the #6 team in the country via KenPom. That's why we only managed to hold the lead in that game for 37:03. For 1:49 the game was tied 0-0, and for 1:08 Ohio State held a 2 point lead. Thank God we lucked into that win. Whew.

Louisville was a great game, as befitting playing the #1 team according to KenPom.

In 200 minutes of basketball during the NCAA tournament, Wichita State trailed against four top 11 teams in probably the most accurate advanced metrics in the sport, plus a team that reached the Sweet 16, for less than 10 minutes total.

God you're a bad troll.

[rlh04d]

2010-2011 Pitt does not equal 2012-2013 Pitt. Now I think that WSU critics have been overly critical of their opponents. See I will stand up for WSU when it is warranted. But last year's Pitt team was not nearly as good as the one two years before. Look at their respective seeds.

Making a comparison of teams based on seeds is absurd. Pittsburgh was widely acknowledged as being under-seeded last year, entirely based on the number of Big East teams seeded above them. They were seen as no worse than a 6 seed going in, and so an 8 seed was not representative of their season.

As I just mentioned, the 2012-2013 Pitt team was ranked #11 by KenPom's advanced metrics. In 2010-2011, Pitt was the #4 team according to KenPom. It's also worth noting that Pitt's overall rating in 2013 was a .9336, while in 2011 it was a .9400. They were a better team in 2011, without a doubt ... but not that much better.

There were only two teams in KenPom's top 18 that were seeded higher than 6: Pitt and WSU.

[Redbird23]

Pitt had no business being a #8 seed
Zags should not of been a #1 seed
LaSalle was actually a good matchup
Ohio St, Shox got lucky at end
Louisville was a great game and sad they lost (not really)

What a lucky and easy run it was.

Maybe Illinois State will be lucky enough to make the Arch Madness Final Four this year.

Shox won't make final four again

[Redbird Recon]

I was honest and genuine with my earlier post. I wish Redbird23's immaturity didn't overshadow an opinion I formed from watching more MVC basketball than any on this board (season tickets at Bradley too). My point that I was unfairly insulted over was that that KU team was better than any of the teams WSU beat this year. The reason I wasn't floored by any of the WSU wins? I thought they were a great team playing similar competition. I never once said their road was easy or that getting to Atlanta was a fluke. Also, that UNI team played some of the best team defense I've ever seen. That's why I'd pick them in a seven game series. I've posted on this board for years (formerly 45otseoj). I've taken a few shots here and there but always try and give a fair and balanced assessment of what I see. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but calling me a 'dick' is insulting and uncalled for.

And yes, parity.

[CBB_Fan]

Statistically, there is a chance. However, with an 18-game schedule the Shockers would have to have a 96% chance to win each game to even have 50/50 odds of sweeping the Valley. In reality, that number would be higher because of the difficulty in playing on the road.

Realistically, I think that the Shockers have the potential to throw out their most talented line-up in Marshall's tenure next year. In addition to swapped Creighton for Loyola, the Valley as a whole is losing a star studded senior class that will be difficult to replace next season, which will result in a down year for many teams.

However, there were times where Indiana State was the best team in the Valley last year, not Wichita State or Creighton. The problem was consistency. If they can develop enough to eliminate those off games, they could easily give Wichita State a run for their money at the top of the league. Even without improving their consistency they could still throw out a stellar game at home and walk away with a win.

If the Wichita State continues to improve, doesn't receive too great a challenge from Indiana State, and the rest of the league has a down year, I think the Shockers have about a 10% chance to sweep the Valley. If any of those things fails to happen, then the odds go steeply downward.

[shoxrox]

I was honest and genuine with my earlier post. I wish Redbird23's immaturity didn't overshadow an opinion I formed from watching more MVC basketball than any on this board (season tickets at Bradley too). My point that I was unfairly insulted over was that that KU team was better than any of the teams WSU beat this year. The reason I wasn't floored by any of the WSU wins? I thought they were a great team playing similar competition. I never once said their road was easy or that getting to Atlanta was a fluke. Also, that UNI team played some of the best team defense I've ever seen. That's why I'd pick them in a seven game series. I've posted on this board for years (formerly 45otseoj). I've taken a few shots here and there but always try and give a fair and balanced assessment of what I see. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but calling me a 'dick' is insulting and uncalled for.

And yes, parity.

I apologize. You were and are a good poster.

[Wufan]

An SIU fan asked the question, not a WSU fan, and not one WSU fan has said yes to it. So I don't really see why the need is there to call out any WSU fans when all it's been is another opposing fan bash session by some posters. I guess that's all they got when you can't beat em.

http://shockernet.net/forum/showthread. ... ext-Season

I don't know why you constantly get worked up?

Your answer is a link to a fan message board? I'm pretty sure there are Evansville fans claiming they're going undefeated this season on their board.

I'm talking about here, specifically this thread. I thought my post was clear. I guess not.

I don't know why you constantly get worked up with what WSU fans have to say and are always licking up any opposing fan's backside.

I wasn't talking about "18-0" I was talking about FVV as being a good PG. While I see him as being a very good PG, not everyone has had enough of the eye test to agree. You, for no apparent reason called me out and said that no WSU fan had ever questioned if FVV was ready to take it to the next level. I posted a link. You called me an ass licker.

[rlh04d]

My point that I was unfairly insulted over was that that KU team was better than any of the teams WSU beat this year.

I don't think any WSU fans would disagree with that. KU was an incredible team that year. Louisville is the team that would have compared to them this year.

However, again, kenpom statistics: Kansas was UNI's biggest win in 2009-10, without a doubt, as the #1 team in the country. UNI's second biggest win that season was UNLV at #39. Third would have been Boston College at 62, I think.

WSU, while not having a win as good as UNI's over Kansas, had six wins far better than UNI's second best win: Gonzaga (4), Ohio State (6), Pittsburgh (11), VCU (16), Creighton (19), and Iowa (23).

So when we're talking about "whole body of work" rather than just one hot period -- sure, you can make that argument for UNI's superior regular season. You could also make the argument that UNI's win over Kansas was a drastic aberration from the opponents they faced the rest of the season, while WSU defeated six excellent teams according to well respected advanced metrics.

Also, UNI's overall rating in KenPom's statistics in 2009-10 was .8927, good for 29th in the nation. WSU's in 2012-13 was .9007, 17th in the nation.

WSU's SOS in 2012-13: 97th. UNI's SOS in 2009-10: 112th.

Games lost by WSU's starters to injury in 2012-13: 59 (31 by Wessel, 21 by Baker, 7 by Hall). Games lost by UNI's starters to injury in 2009-10: 5. (Three by Eglseder, two by Moran -- which might actually have been optional rest nights rather than injuries).)

Anyone that actually wants to have a real debate about whether UNI in 2009-10 or WSU in 2012-13 was the better team, I'll happily have it with you, because I think it's an interesting question and logical adults could probably make a good argument both ways. I enjoy a good logical argument about sports statistics. But let's bring something quantifiable to this debate rather than just gut feelings.

[rlh04d]

Shox won't make final four again

Troll.