Any chance WSU goes 18-0 in MVC?

[iSASO]

Ahaha no way in hell. Seems like a thread to set shocker fans up to be arrogant. Same dumb question was being asked about Creighton last year. They will probably go 15-3 or 16-2 at the very best. They lost to siu and got swept by Evansville last season and that was a final four team! Best team in the valley but still they will have their off nights.

It's far more likely they go 0-18 than 18-0. Just too many teams equal to Louisville.

[iSASO]

I'd take UNI S16 over WSU F4 in a 7 game series (7 games). I'll also say that the Kansas team that UNI beat was better than any team WSU beat to get to ATL. A Shocker fan might come back and say, "Gonzaga was a 1 seed!" Absolutely correct but everyone remembers this past season for the parody. There were no 'great' teams in college basketball this year. The Kansas team UNI beat was considered the best team in college basketball. There wasn't a game that Wichita State won that I was absolutely floored by. The performance I was most impressed by was how close they played Louisville.

With all that said, making the Final 4 is a totally different realm.
I'll bet good money it doesn't happen again anytime soon.
I hope Shocker Nation enjoyed it for all it was worth.

Are you betting it won't happen or hoping it won't happen?

[uniftw]

I really think the whole discussion here is stupid...but...as far as the UNI/WSU comparison - in a 7 game series on a neutral court I'd probably take UNI in 7 strictly because of the defense we played that year, especially late in the year. At one point in the season UNI was 24-3..finished at 30-5

In STL against Drake we held them without a field goal for over an hour of real time (yes, that does include half time) and close to 40 minutes of real time without a point. Aaron Howly hit a 3 with 7:59 left in the first half and Drake didn't score again until the 16:57 mark of the second half when Van Deest hit a pair of FT. They didn't score again until the 857 mark with Craig Stanley hit a pair of FT. They didn't hit a FG until the 700 mark of the second half. Went on to win 55-40 and held Drake to 32% shooting

Bradley in the semis was very similar...36-19 at half and 57-40 final. Multiple spurts of 4-7 minutes in the game that Bradley went without a FG. Held Bradley to 33% shooting.

WSU in the finals was a good game at half...WSU up 31-28 and 33-28 just 13 seconds into the second half and 39-33 after a 3 by Stutz with 16:24 left. WSU didn't hit another FG until the 4:24 mark when Clevin Hannah hit a 3...but at the point the score had gone from 39-33 to 56-45 UNI. WSU shot 43% from the field and 50 from deep in the first half compared to 23% and 25% in the second half thanks to UNI's D and finished at 32% and 37%.


As for the NCAA's UNLV was honestly very similar to this years Pitt's team I'd bet. Their "pom numbers" are inflated from the Big East. WSU boat raced them...we needed Ali to come though and he did.

Kansas was the #1 overall seed and we held the lead for 39 minutes and 4 seconds. Gonzaga? Record wise they probably were a #1...but let's be real on that one.

Michigan State we screwed ourselves over. Ali played the worst games of the season that night going 2-9 from the field...Adam got screwed on some very piss poor foul calls and was limited to just 18 minutes but had 13 points. He picked his third foul up just seconds into the second half and his 4th with just under 7 minutes left. He was completely taken out of the second half of the game by the officials....yes the fouls were that poor. UNI was up at half, but MSU had a 15-6 run to start the second half after Adam was taken out and it wasn't the same after.

WSU boat raced LaSalle....I don't know what to say. They had a nice NCAA run but were the typical complete overachiever in the first couple rounds.


The loss to Evansville was after we secured the 1 seed, I believe, and without Jordan (who may have won POY without that suspension)...still a terrible loss. We have something like 1 win since 2009 in the state of Indiana


It's tough to say...I'm probably biased (And will be blasted as such by WSU fans) so I'd pick UNI.

WSU last year was something special, especially in the tournament, though.

[Snaggletooth]

Shox won't make final four again

Sweet! Shox going to the Championship Game.

[iSASO]

My point that I was unfairly insulted over was that that KU team was better than any of the teams WSU beat this year.

I don't think any WSU fans would disagree with that. KU was an incredible team that year. Louisville is the team that would have compared to them this year.

However, again, kenpom statistics: Kansas was UNI's biggest win in 2009-10, without a doubt, as the #1 team in the country. UNI's second biggest win that season was UNLV at #39. Third would have been Boston College at 62, I think.

WSU, while not having a win as good as UNI's over Kansas, had six wins far better than UNI's second best win: Gonzaga (4), Ohio State (6), Pittsburgh (11), VCU (16), Creighton (19), and Iowa (23).

So when we're talking about "whole body of work" rather than just one hot period -- sure, you can make that argument for UNI's superior regular season. You could also make the argument that UNI's win over Kansas was a drastic aberration from the opponents they faced the rest of the season, while WSU defeated six excellent teams according to well respected advanced metrics.

Also, UNI's overall rating in KenPom's statistics in 2009-10 was .8927, good for 29th in the nation. WSU's in 2012-13 was .9007, 17th in the nation.

WSU's SOS in 2012-13: 97th. UNI's SOS in 2009-10: 112th.

Games lost by WSU's starters to injury in 2012-13: 59 (31 by Wessel, 21 by Baker, 7 by Hall). Games lost by UNI's starters to injury in 2009-10: 5. (Three by Eglseder, two by Moran -- which might actually have been optional rest nights rather than injuries).)

Anyone that actually wants to have a real debate about whether UNI in 2009-10 or WSU in 2012-13 was the better team, I'll happily have it with you, because I think it's an interesting question and logical adults could probably make a good argument both ways. I enjoy a good logical argument about sports statistics. But let's bring something quantifiable to this debate rather than just gut feelings.

Well done, sir!

[2livewu]

But its certainly useful to look at overall Valley history when making predictions like this. There have been a ton of great teams in this league and history has shown that they all lose conf games at some point.

We have a similar thread to this virtually every season concerning the preseason favorite. "Will they lose a single game?" We had this same conversation last year with Creighton, and they ended up having the most losss by a league champ in over a decade.

It might be useful if WSU weren't in a different place than any MVC program since, well Wichita State in the 80s. Even the GREAT SIU teams didn't have the size or depth of WSU right now. That's not to say WSU is "better" than those teams....just that they are more correctly assembled to compete at the national level.

Other than CU last year, I don't remember a lot of talk about a team going undefeated over the last decade or so. As usual, your attempt to make a point attacking WSU and pimping your school misses the mark.

[iSASO]

oh no its happening. Just like last year with Creighton fans they are getting a little too high. Its understandable to an extent given last years success but when that February 2 or 3 game losing streak comes better put on some helmets because your fans base will think the sky is falling. This is not conference USA. We have solid coaches everywhere and while it probably wont be as strong as last season the valley is still a tough conference. Shoxs no better than 16-2 and no worse than 14-4 barring a rash of injuries.

Here's another overbearing Shocker fan with a prediction, however it may not fit your stereotyped view:

The Shocks will finish 9th, Coach Marshall has proven that he is "in over his head in this conference". Those are my expectations, whether you like it or not. Bring on that 2 or 3 game losing streak. Been there done that enroute to the Final Four.

[Veritas]

Pitt had no business being a #8 seed
Zags should not of been a #1 seed
LaSalle was actually a good matchup
Ohio St, Shox got lucky at end
Louisville was a great game and sad they lost (not really)

What a lucky and easy run it was.

Maybe Illinois State will be lucky enough to make the Arch Madness Final Four this year.

Shox won't make final four again

There is no way you can truly be a Redbird fan. Are you sure you're not a Bradley fan dressed like a red woodPECKER trying to make all of Redbird Nation look silly? If not, IlSU should take away your posting privileges for a year.

[2livewu]

Question for WSU fans: Are you comfortable with your PG/ball handling situation? I'm no expert about WSU's roster, but it appears that Van Vleet is the only true PG on the roster at the moment (with a couple of freshman PGs coming) - the rest are combos with varying levels of ball-handling ability, no?

If Van Vleet takes a huge step forward, the Shox could run the table. If he doesn't, they'll play a lot of low-scoring grinders and likely end up in the 13-15 win range, IMO.

I've said it before, the PG position concerns me. Anything happens to Fred and we're in deep, in comparison to expectations.

There's also only 1 freshman PG, DJ Bowles. Holland is a 2 and will redshirt. Cotton, Baker and Bowles will back up Fred.

I also would disagree that WSU will play a lot of grinder low scoring games. This team has more scorers than any team I can remember. They'll score. Defense is the question. They lost 3 of the 4 best defenders on the team. Defense and cohesiveness. Can they gel? Of course, injuries changes anyone's game plan. Still, WSU is far more prepared to withstand injuries than any other Valley team.

Where does ISU get picked if Odom and Arop go down?
Where does UNI get slotted if Mitchell and Tuttle go down?
If Bradley loses Pickett and Lemon Jr?

They all become VERY hopeful to finish .500.

If WSU loses VanVleet and Early, they are still going to be at or near the top, and probably will win. The weakness of the Valley this season certainly plays a part in that.

[2livewu]

Pitt had no business being a #8 seed
Zags should not of been a #1 seed
LaSalle was actually a good matchup
Ohio St, Shox got lucky at end
Louisville was a great game and sad they lost (not really)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Okay...what then, a #4?
Seriously? #1 in the country.
For WSU. The game was over before it started, and if you were a LaSalle fan that didn't understand that, it was made abundantly clear to you before the under 16 timeout in the first half when the game was decided.
Lucky? You make me smile. OSU held a lead for exactly 1:09 of the game, and that was early. They had the ball and the lead ONCE. They trailed by double digits for more than half the game. Hell, Ohio State had like 4 possessions the entire game where they even had a CHANCE to take a lead. None after the under 9 minute mark of the first half. Nobody on the planet outside of you think WSU was lucky. That's not even trying.