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[mvcfan]

SIU had some very good teams. Their close proximity to Chicago and St. Louis, make them a great recruiting location for a very good coach. A strong coach can recruit good players to Carbondale because of their location because they are in the middle of a hotbed of high school basketball.

However, they never stepped up like they should have when they were so good. Even when they were good, they rarely filled up their own arena (except for when certain teams played them). If their opponents were top opponents in the league, their fans stepped up. If their opponents, were poor, fans didn't step up and go to their games. When they played in St. Louis, they showed up when they were playing for championships, and when they were playing teams that enthused their fan base (and St. Louis is extremely close to Carbondale). It seems to me that they are just like MSU in the Valley.

[agrinut]

My reasoning for saying Carbondale could be easier to recruit to than Springfield is because of its proximity to St. Louis and that they have done it before. Not in any way a slam on MSU who has a better basketball facility. It would be great if MSU could string together several years of NCAA success. More power to you.

And SIU brings a huge number of fans to the MVC Tourney when the Salukis are good. I remember a final in which they almost filled the place. MSU has a good fan base but I doubt they will ever travel in those kinds of numbers. Feel free to prove me wrong.

20 years of sustained excellence is not the standard. Even Duke, NC, and Kentucky have missed the NCAA Tourney during that time frame. Remember when Kentucky lost in the first round of the NIT recently?

If three teams could go on a nice 3-4 year run in which they were all national powers at the same time, the Valley would get some kind of TV deal. And it is doable. I stand by my original post.

So you are basing the decision on 1 hour drive time? Have you ever been to Carbondale or Springfield? I doubt MSU would lose many recruiting battles to SIU. it's not like Barry is a good recruiter.

[Wufan]

My reasoning for saying Carbondale could be easier to recruit to than Springfield is because of its proximity to St. Louis and that they have done it before. Not in any way a slam on MSU who has a better basketball facility. It would be great if MSU could string together several years of NCAA success. More power to you.

So you are basing the decision on 1 hour drive time? Have you ever been to Carbondale or Springfield? I doubt MSU would lose many recruiting battles to SIU. it's not like Barry is a good recruiter.

With the rising cost in fuel these days, one must be selective about their school. Unfortunately for MSU, the only good basketball players come from Chicago and St Louis.

Bottom line is that the MVC needs more brand recognition. WSU to the Final Four this year was huge for that, and WSU needs to continue this, but the addition of more national brand recognition is needed. Without it WSU is the Gonzaga/Butler of the conference and everyone else is Portland St/Loyola.

While SMS, Drake, Indiana St and Ill St could certainly establish themselves, some of the other schools have inherent advantages. Bradley has a recent (last decade) sweet 16, some memorable teams from the 80s, some historically important teams from the 40s and 50s, and the resources necessary for sustained success. SIU has a recent history of success. UNI has some recent success, but needs to duplicate it. Everyone else is a mid-major flash in the pan. Someone needs to step up and the Shockers need to build on the foundation.

[glm38]

With the rising cost in fuel these days, one must be selective about their school. Unfortunately for MSU, the only good basketball players come from Chicago and St Louis.

The only good players come from Chicago and St. Louis??

[shocktheheart]

:bow:

With the rising cost in fuel these days, one must be selective about their school. Unfortunately for MSU, the only good basketball players come from Chicago and St Louis.

The only good players come from Chicago and St. Louis??

How did wsu go to the final 4 last year without a player from either city then?

[Wufan]

My response was sarcastic. Its all good.

[rlh04d]

I guess that is my point. We need teams to be good for 20 years. That raises the profile of the conference, adds more TV games, gets more recruits, etc. Hate on Creighton for the lack of NCAA success, but they were still in the ratings every year, still on TV every year, and still on covers of magazines and websites every year. WSU is doing that now. We need Bradley, MSU, UNI etc to do the same thing.

In order for that to happen, you need to ask the deeper questions. Take MSU. New stadium, donor support, young coach. Seems like a good foundation. Will it take you to sustained success, or will you start over in 3 years?

Even Creighton hasn't been good for 20 years, NCAA success or no. 20 years would be 1993. The Rick Johnson era was terrible and he finished with 93-94 season where they were 7-22. Even Dana Altman went 7-19 his first season. They didn't break .500 until 97-98.

20 years is an unreasonably long time. We don't need programs that are good for 20 years. 10 years, maybe. We just need programs that can be successful across coaching changes. That's the real test it seems, and something rarely done in the Valley. The teams at the top last year (WSU, Creighton, UNI) have been able to do it, but I don't recall any other Valley teams pulling it off lately.

[rlh04d]

Why in the world would Carbondale be easier to recruit to then springfield?

Six NCAA appearances and two Sweet 16's since 2002 versus zero NCAA appearances?

Absolutely it's easier to recruit to a place with SIU's relatively recent success. Most recruits were four-years-old or younger the last time MoSt made the Dance.

[DUBulldog]

SIU had some very good teams. Their close proximity to Chicago and St. Louis.....

Close proximity to Chicago? It's about 325 miles....Carbondale is much closer to Memphis than it is to Chicago. Large parts of Mississippi are closer to Carbondale than Chicago is. More than half the schools in the MVC are closer to Chicago than Carbondale is.

[glm38]

Why in the world would Carbondale be easier to recruit to then springfield?

Six NCAA appearances and two Sweet 16's since 2002 versus zero NCAA appearances?

Absolutely it's easier to recruit to a place with SIU's relatively recent success. Most recruits were four-years-old or younger the last time MoSt made the Dance.

Point taken. But how many more years of SIU being below mediocrity (even in The MVC) will it take before it wipes out any benefit of those glory years? Not many and you could argue that threshold may have already been reached. Joe average fan (especially recruit age kids) have a pretty short memory.

I'm obviously biased but if I'm a young recruit I pick MSU with a recent Valley title, new facilities, and pretty good young talent over SIU. Its not even close IMO but Im not a 18 to 22 year old recruit either. Time will tell I guess.

It'll be interesting to see how the F4 positively affects WSU recruiting. You guys were doing great before but will that raise it another notch or 2? I was actually a little surprised Wiggins brother didn't pick you this year..... think there would have a lot of upside (for him) to have done so.