Valley Attendance

[pafan]

When is the last Evansville sell out?

See my post from yesterday.

[rlh04d]

The point of posting the A-10 attendance was in part that attendance has little to do with won/loss record, RPI, or NCAA bids. It DOES have something to do with NIT bids, but not much else. If attendance was the most important thing, Dayton would have an NCAA Championship and San Francisico would have zero. Attendance happens AFTER success, not before.

I lived in Richmond, VA in the 1970s, and VCU was nothing--- less than Virginia, Virginia Tech, and most ACC teams. I lived in DC in the early 80s, and worked at the radio station that broadcast the Georgetown team, and they didn't capture the imagination of the city until they were well into the NCAA tournament.

Attendance helps sustain a program, but it doesn't make it. If it did, Dayton would be a perennial NCAA team, and Bradley would always challenge for the MVC crown. Butler didn't have great attendance until it made the NCAA Final after a decade of NCAA appearances. This obsession with attendance is really misplaced.

One of the highest rising conferences is the West Coast, and if Loyola was added to the West Coast, they'd be 7th in attendance out of 11 teams. Santa Clara is currently averaging 850 fans per game at home. St. Mary's has a smaller arena than anyone in the MVC, including Loyola, and they're 9th in RPI. The West Coast Conference has an average attendance of 3500 per game, roughly 32% lower than the MVC, and the only reason it's that high is because BYU was added to the conference and they're averaging 15000 per game. Yet their Conference RPI is 8th, compared to the MVC's 11th. Maybe we should all become Mormons.

You're being deliberately deceptive here. You are clearly ignoring programs that don't fit your argument. You mention Bradley for the MVC, yet ignore WSU's success.

[GoRamblers]

The point of posting the A-10 attendance was in part that attendance has little to do with won/loss record, RPI, or NCAA bids. It DOES have something to do with NIT bids, but not much else. If attendance was the most important thing, Dayton would have an NCAA Championship and San Francisico would have zero. Attendance happens AFTER success, not before.

I lived in Richmond, VA in the 1970s, and VCU was nothing--- less than Virginia, Virginia Tech, and most ACC teams. I lived in DC in the early 80s, and worked at the radio station that broadcast the Georgetown team, and they didn't capture the imagination of the city until they were well into the NCAA tournament.

Attendance helps sustain a program, but it doesn't make it. If it did, Dayton would be a perennial NCAA team, and Bradley would always challenge for the MVC crown. Butler didn't have great attendance until it made the NCAA Final after a decade of NCAA appearances. This obsession with attendance is really misplaced.

One of the highest rising conferences is the West Coast, and if Loyola was added to the West Coast, they'd be 7th in attendance out of 11 teams. Santa Clara is currently averaging 850 fans per game at home. St. Mary's has a smaller arena than anyone in the MVC, including Loyola, and they're 9th in RPI. The West Coast Conference has an average attendance of 3500 per game, roughly 32% lower than the MVC, and the only reason it's that high is because BYU was added to the conference and they're averaging 15000 per game. Yet their Conference RPI is 8th, compared to the MVC's 11th. Maybe we should all become Mormons.

You're being deliberately deceptive here. You are clearly ignoring programs that don't fit your argument. You mention Bradley for the MVC, yet ignore WSU's success.

What kind of attendance numbers did WSU have during the 90's?

[Snaggletooth]

What kind of attendance numbers did WSU have during the 90's?

1990 - 7,880
1991 - 8,011
1992 - 6,755
1993 - 7,779
1994 - 5,948
1995 - 7,010
1996 - 5,528
1997 - 9,449
1998 - 7,691
1999 - 7,358

[Wufan]

The point of posting the A-10 attendance was in part that attendance has little to do with won/loss record, RPI, or NCAA bids. It DOES have something to do with NIT bids, but not much else. If attendance was the most important thing, Dayton would have an NCAA Championship and San Francisico would have zero. Attendance happens AFTER success, not before.

I lived in Richmond, VA in the 1970s, and VCU was nothing--- less than Virginia, Virginia Tech, and most ACC teams. I lived in DC in the early 80s, and worked at the radio station that broadcast the Georgetown team, and they didn't capture the imagination of the city until they were well into the NCAA tournament.

Attendance helps sustain a program, but it doesn't make it. If it did, Dayton would be a perennial NCAA team, and Bradley would always challenge for the MVC crown. Butler didn't have great attendance until it made the NCAA Final after a decade of NCAA appearances. This obsession with attendance is really misplaced.

One of the highest rising conferences is the West Coast, and if Loyola was added to the West Coast, they'd be 7th in attendance out of 11 teams. Santa Clara is currently averaging 850 fans per game at home. St. Mary's has a smaller arena than anyone in the MVC, including Loyola, and they're 9th in RPI. The West Coast Conference has an average attendance of 3500 per game, roughly 32% lower than the MVC, and the only reason it's that high is because BYU was added to the conference and they're averaging 15000 per game. Yet their Conference RPI is 8th, compared to the MVC's 11th. Maybe we should all become Mormons.

You're being deliberately deceptive here. You are clearly ignoring programs that don't fit your argument. You mention Bradley for the MVC, yet ignore WSU's success.

What kind of attendance numbers did WSU have during the 90's?

Generally in the 7000s.

[GoRamblers]

And the size of your arena then? Was it around 10?

[Wufan]

And the size of your arena then? Was it around 10?

10500 at that time.

[sixth ace]

Wichita 385,577 (2012)
Terra Haute 61,112 (2012)
Evansville 120,235 (2012
Des Moines 206,688 (2012)
Chicago
Springfield 162,191 (2012)
Carbondale 26,241 (2012)
Normal Il 53,837 (2012)
Peoria IL 115,687 (2012)
Cedar Falls 39,993 (2012)

Town populations compare to attendance. Wichita State is the biggest city in the MVC so I would expect that they would have the largest attendance Evansville is 1/3 the size of Wichita so I believe that Evansville attendance is similar to Wichita considering the draw size.

[Snaggletooth]

Wichita 385,577 (2012)
Terra Haute 61,112 (2012)
Evansville 120,235 (2012
Des Moines 206,688 (2012)
Chicago
Springfield 162,191 (2012)
Carbondale 26,241 (2012)
Normal Il 53,837 (2012)
Peoria IL 115,687 (2012)
Cedar Falls 39,993 (2012)

Town populations compare to attendance. Wichita State is the biggest city in the MVC so I would expect that they would have the largest attendance Evansville is 1/3 the size of Wichita so I believe that Evansville attendance is similar to Wichita considering the draw size.

Lets just check a few data point to see if your argument carries weight:

Lawrence, KS - Population 89,512, attendance in 2013 (KU) - 16,438
Manhattan, KS - Population 56,059, attendance in 2013 (KSU) - 12,528
Columbia, MO - Population 113,255, attendance in 2013 (MO) - 11,996
St. Louis, MO - Population 318,272, attendance in 2013 (STL) - 7,673

Your argument is: FAIL

BTW,Evansville drew 8,500+ in 1999 and 10,000+ in the mid-90's -- why won't the fans support them now?

[rlh04d]

What kind of attendance numbers did WSU have during the 90's?

Others already responded, but basically: even during he 90s, when WSU was terrible, they were filling up a greater percentage of the arena than most Valley teams are now. All in many of those years.

Your point about attendance is true: fans usually come out to see a winning program. That is the obvious way to build a fan base. You can argue that WSU's crowd was so large because of the success in the early 80s. Our fans just never gave up the way other fans do.

But pointing out VCU or Dayton as proving something are ridiculous. VCU proves what has always been true: a great coach can turn around any program, especially on the east coast. Luckily for VCU, they immediately were able to ramp up revenue to keep him. In Dayton's situation, they prove that attendance isn't enough to win ... But who is arguing the contrary? Dayton has the resources to maintain success, but they have to obtain it first. WSU had the resources to maintain success in the 90s, but didn't capitalize on it until hiring Turgeon, and then obviously Marshall.

Loyola does not have the resources to maintain success. You need to hope to get a good coach, and then another to replace him when he inevitably leaves, and then probably a third. So basically you need a string of three great hires in succession because of crippling structural deficiencies.