Valley Attendance

[Veritas]

Metro Populations and/or school's enrollment should support good attendance at all MVC venues

CITY......................METRO.............. ENROLLMENT
WICHITA.................636,105...............14,555
TERRE HAUTE...........172,493...............12,114
EVANSVILLE..............313,433................3,050
DES MOINES.............588,999.................3,164
CHICAGO..............9,522,434................15,068
SPRINGFIELD............444,617................21,059
CARBONDALE...........126,745................18,847
NORMAL.................188,715................20,052
PEORIA..................380,447.................6,000
CEDAR FALLS...........167,747................14,150

[Ali]

When do tourney tickets go on sale? Any way WSU brings as many people as Creighton did last year?

[Dean Wormer]

Metro Populations and/or school's enrollment should support good attendance at all MVC venues

CITY......................METRO.............. ENROLLMENT
WICHITA.................636,105...............14,555
TERRE HAUTE...........172,493...............12,114
EVANSVILLE..............313,433................3,050
DES MOINES.............588,999.................3,164
CHICAGO..............9,522,434................15,068
SPRINGFIELD............444,617................21,059
CARBONDALE...........126,745................18,847
NORMAL.................188,715................20,052
PEORIA..................380,447.................6,000
CEDAR FALLS...........167,747................14,150

Not to nitpick, but the Evansville metro is about 360,000 as of 2010, around 500K if you include Owensboro, which is supposedly in the works. Your point, however, is spot on, all markets have the potential for decent crowds.

I think the purple teenager is pretty off base claiming Wichita should draw more simply on populations. If that is the case, Loyola would outdraw everyone by a large amount. The numbers could and should be better, but historically, the MVC has drawn better than any other upper tier, non-bcs conference...A-10, MWC, MAC etc. The A-10 and MWC have larger markets, which apparently mean little.

Not always, but in most cases, winning has to come before the crowds. In the 90's, both Bradley and Evansville were outdrawing Wichita State. In fairness to the Shockers, they were pretty bad, and still were in the upper half of attendance every year. A final four appearance now has secured large crowds for years to come. There is no argument Wichita State supports well. I would also argue that Bradley, UE and several others would sell out a season following a final four run.

If market size is all that mattered, it wouldn't have taken two final game appearances for Butler to crack 5K in a market like Indianapolis. Even with those appearance, Butler still takes a back seat in Central Indiana to both IU and Purdue. Kind of scary considering the liklihood of them ever going back to back again.

[lime]

In the 90's there wasn't as much electronic entertainment as there is today.

so your excuse is everybody is staying home and playing xbox/ps3, watching netflix? Really, that is what you want to use.

I've heard interviews with people who sell tickets (ie. CEO of Ticketmaster, etc.) who have cited the wider availability of entertainment options as one of their biggest obstacles in selling tickets. I don't think that it's a point without merit.

[RoyalShock]

There are so many factors that go into attendance, and none can be ignored.

A big one that's barely been alluded to is that the large, dominant state universities are going to have larger fan bases simply because they attract more students (meaning more alumni), and generally get most of the media attention. That means state residents are going to identify more with those schools, even when there's a school more local to them.

Let's compare and contract Creighton and Drake. Both are smallish private schools in decent sized metro areas in relatively small midwestern states. CU has had the fortune of the only other D1 school in the state being mediocre to awful in basketball for a very long time, allowing them to siphon off fans that would otherwise surely follow NU.

Drake, on the other hand, has two power-conference schools to contend with, each having had recent success and avoiding prolonged periods of mediocrity. The Bulldogs are going to have to have a multi-year run of finishing in the top 3-4 of the MVC, combined with down years from IU and ISU to expect a consistent, nearly-full arena.

Due to not being one of the premier schools in the state, those MVC members in college towns just aren't likely to draw a lot of attendees from surrouding areas unless they are consistently good.

What has worked for WSU is that we've had periods of being very good, even if those were separated by a decade or two. We're helped by being in a good-sized metro area with KU/KSU in a different part of the state. Other than a couple of truly down years, we've been good for a decade now and established a brand.

I think BU has had similar fortunes, but it seems a string of mediocre seasons are finally taking their toll.

The Indiana schools will likely continue to suffer from having IU, ND and Purdue to compete with from a fan perspective. At least UE can point to having had consistently solid support at one time.

MSU has a lot of potential if they can put together a couple of good seasons, pay a successful coach accordingly and restructure their ticket prices.

I would also add that not having football has helped. Look at WSU, BU and in the past UE (and throw CU into this, as well). It allows schools to pour more into the program (salaries, recruiting budgets) and frees up money among the fanbase to focus spending their dollars on going to basketball games. I'm sure this factor has probably helped WSU in baseball and volleyball attendance, too. The schools with football seem to drop faster in basketball attendance during the down years.

I worry that if Barry doesn't get things turned around (a mid-level MVC finish) starting next year, SIU's road to recovery will get much harder. We're talking WSU in the 90s territory. Right now, Hinson is WSU's Thompson. It wasn't until two coaching changes later (Smithson, then Turgeon), our fortunes started to turn.

[rlh04d]

Not always, but in most cases, winning has to come before the crowds. In the 90's, both Bradley and Evansville were outdrawing Wichita State. In fairness to the Shockers, they were pretty bad, and still were in the upper half of attendance every year. A final four appearance now has secured large crowds for years to come. There is no argument Wichita State supports well. I would also argue that Bradley, UE and several others would sell out a season following a final four run.

Sure, I bet every team in the MVC would sell out their arenas if they went to the Final Four.

Not sure how that's really relevant, though, considering Wichita State was selling out the arena WELL before this Final Four run.

2013: 10,312
2012: 10,391
2011: 10,428
2010: 10,333
2009: 10,095
2008: 10,478
2007: 10,478
2006: 10,435
2005: 10,325
2004: 10,090
2003: 8,190
2002: 8,399
2001: 8,114
2000: 7,393
1999: 7,358
1998: 7,691
1997: 9,449
1996: 5,528
1995: 7,010
1994: 5,948
1993: 7,779
1992: 6,755

So ... I don't get the point of even bringing up the Final Four. WSU's revenue increased because of the FF, due to higher ticket prices/donation requirements, but the attendance hasn't increased much at all. There just isn't much room for attendance to change. WSU hasn't been below 96% of capacity since 2003.

Even at the worst WSU has been in the last 50 or so years throughout the 90s, WSU's worst attendance mark on a season (1996) would still rank third among in the MVC right now. It's second worst would be ... still the best in the conference.

Let's not get silly about what the Final Four has done. The FF isn't responsible for WSU's attendance. WSU's attendance is responsible for the Final Four run, because it's the reason we've been able to keep Gregg Marshall.

I'm sure the Final Four has probably guaranteed another decade or more of loyalty, but CKA was going to be sold out regardless as long as WSU isn't terrible. There are obviously factors that help WSU get those attendance figures that other schools don't have, but those games were going to be sold out, Final Four or not.

(Oh, and regarding the attendance numbers above: I went back to 1992 because that time period includes four of the five times WSU has failed to win 10 games in a season since the 1950-51 season. Those numbers are WSU at their best and their worst. I selected the worst years for WSU and yet in 22 of the last 23 seasons WSU would still rank higher than every other Valley team this year in attendance. THAT is how bad the Valley attendance is right now.)

[AndShock]

It should also be noted that Wichita State hasn't had a regular season game under 10k attendance since 2004. When was the last NCAA tournament appearance before 2004? We also kept 10k+ throughout Marshall's rebuilding. I don't think any team in the conference would be able to do that even if they were 3-4 years removed from a Sweet 16.

[rlh04d]

Rambler63 made those posts. I just jumped in to ask a question or two.

Sorry! Too many Ramblers

[agernes]

People are really looking at Drake wrong. They're a small enrollment school in a city that's dominated by alumni from the two large public schools in the state. It's not a college town. It's an Iowa/Iowa State town. You then factor in that Drake students come heavily from Chicago and the Twin Cities - areas to which many tend to return upon graduation - and you can see how you're losing the natural ticket base.

Basically, for Drake to have successful attendance, they have to be real good. There has to be a buzz. People not really affiliated with the university have to choose to drive to Forest Ave.

It's just starting this year, so hopefully that momentum can continue forward. But it's a hard starting point when you're the 7th biggest thing in your city (behind Iowa/Iowa State football/basketball, NFL, MLB) AND your natural customer base lives a couple hundred miles away.

[GoRamblers]

Rambler63 made those posts. I just jumped in to ask a question or two.

Sorry! Too many Ramblers

No worries. We're actually pretty easy to keep track of once you get past the honeymoon stage...