Upset coming

[Wufan]

Your a WSU fan so I get that biased opinion is hard to resist, but WSU doesn't have superior talent to teams like Iowa State. Are they comparable? Yeah. Are they the better TEAM? certainly could be a possibility. But I don't think most rational people would say oh yeah clearly WSU has the better talent man for man down the roster.

Even just comparing them to ISUB the St. Louis coach jim crews said that WSU first 4 or 5 are as good as anyone in the country but he thought ISUB had more quality depth after that. I don't know if I totally agree with that but when a D1 coach who played them both said so that's enough for me to consider it. Point being after FVV, Early, Baker, and Cotton (and potentially carter) there is a drop off in "BCS" talent on that team. You can hype up Wessel, Wiggins, CF, and KC but that group off the bench does not look too imposing to teams like Iowa State or other top 20 squads for that matter

I think this is a fair assessment. Wessell, Lufile, and Wiggins are struggling offensively which is one reason why we aren't blowing teams out. Coleby is struggling on both ends of the court. There is no doubt, however that Wiggins is a BCS talent. The other three, while I think they are, I can accept that I might have a bias there. They are high level MVC talents. Someone pointed out on the Shocker board that in years past our second team was nearly as good as our first team. That isn't the case this year. Our first team is so far ahead of the second team that it makes them look weak, and they are missing shots to boot. There's no reason that Lufile/Coleby/Wessell won't get it going. Wiggins is the key guy for depth, however. If he gets it going, look out! All that said, we have to play 17 more conference games and the strength of the team, relative to the MVC, will shake out. I have faith that our bench is going to start hitting shots.

[Snaggletooth]

Even just comparing them to ISUB the St. Louis coach jim crews said that WSU first 4 or 5 are as good as anyone in the country but he thought ISUB had more quality depth after that.

Do you have a link? I have listened to Crews post game comments and he didn't make any comparisons.

[rlh04d]

There is no doubt, however that Wiggins is a BCS talent. The other three, while I think they are, I can accept that I might have a bias there.

I don't know about Wessel, Lufile, and Coleby, but Wiggins had a number of BCS offers. I was mad FSU didn't get him ... I still am, actually, even though I'm a far bigger WSU fan. Mostly because it would have been almost guaranteed that FSU would have gotten Andrew, but also because I think he could have been a starter at FSU.

Early and Baker will both be drafted. I'm not sure on FVV, as he has the ability and intangibles but not the measurables. Cotton is the best defensive player in the league, but will be a Europe guy. Carter is plenty talented.

I don't know if we have more talent than Iowa State. I know we're the better team, though.

[Aargh]

I watched ISU (Iowa State) play today. They've got some players.

The theme of the comparison between WSU and Iowa State seems to be the 7 - 10 spots in the rotation. I keep hearing that if a team goes 7 - 10 deep, then Iowa State has better talent.

From watching one game, I can't really comment on that. It's hard to get a good feel for the 7 -10 guys from watching a single game.

From what the posters on this site are saying, WSU might have a problem with Iowa Sate if the game was played 10 - on - 10.

Could be, but I'll take them 5-on-5 any time - anywhere. I thought ISU (Iowa State) compared poorly with Gonzaga's and Ohio State's teams last year, but they may be around the level of LaSalle and Pitt last year.

[PantherSigEp]

I watched ISU (Iowa State) play today. They've got some players.

The theme of the comparison between WSU and Iowa State seems to be the 7 - 10 spots in the rotation. I keep hearing that if a team goes 7 - 10 deep, then Iowa State has better talent.

From watching one game, I can't really comment on that. It's hard to get a good feel for the 7 -10 guys from watching a single game.

From what the posters on this site are saying, WSU might have a problem with Iowa Sate if the game was played 10 - on - 10.

Could be, but I'll take them 5-on-5 any time - anywhere. I thought ISU (Iowa State) compared poorly with Gonzaga's and Ohio State's teams last year, but they may be around the level of LaSalle and Pitt last year.

I'm actually starting to reverse my position and am starting to believe that Iowa State's starting 5 of Niang, Ejim, Hogue, Thomas and Kane (3 forwards and 2 guard's) is a better top 5 than Early, Carter, Cotton, Baker, and Van Vleet (2 forwards and 3 guards). However I'm not so sure their bench depth is as great as the Shox. They really only go 8 deep unless they are blowing someone out of the water as Monte Morris, Naz Long and Dorsey-Walker are the main bench players seeing meaningful action this season.

As far as ISU comparing poorly with Ohio State the Cyclones should've beat the Buckeyes if not for a controversial charge call that many believe contributed to some of the rule changes for this year. The tOSU v. Iowa St. game in March was one of the most entertaining and evenly matched games I've watched for some time and the Cyclones returned some of the most important pieces from last years team in Niang and Ejim.

Overall I think both teams are legitimate Top 15 programs and this whole debate could easily go either way. Keep in mind, if you're attempting the statistical eyeball test, that Iowa State has played a Top 50 schedule at this point, by most measures, while the Shox are generally showing up in the Top 80-150 area (not sure why there is such a deviance) for SoS

[Wufan]

Overall I think both teams [Ohio State and Iowa State] are legitimate Top 15 programs and this whole debate could easily go either way.

I don't think ISU Cyclones are a top 15 program. Not in basketball. Not even close. Here are 15 programs off the top of my head that are better:

Duke
UNC
Kansas
Indiana
UCLA
Syracuse
Cincinnati
Michigan State
Michigan
Oklahoma State
Oklahoma
Ohio State
Florida
Texas
NC State

[PantherSigEp]

Overall I think both teams [Ohio State and Iowa State] are legitimate Top 15 programs and this whole debate could easily go either way.

I don't think ISU Cyclones are a top 15 program. Not in basketball. Not even close. Here are 15 programs off the top of my head that are better:

Duke
UNC
Kansas
Indiana
UCLA
Syracuse
Cincinnati
Michigan State
Michigan
Oklahoma State
Oklahoma
Ohio State
Florida
Texas
NC State

Alright, "program" was a poor word to use. I simply didn't want to say "team" for a 2nd time in the sentence. That stuff bugs the hell out of me. I was mainly referring to the fact that I believe that OSU and ISU are both top 15 teams this season. Yes, programs is a whole different discussion.

[Wufan]

Absolutely a top 15 team.