What if Creighton was still in the Valley...

[TheAsianSensation]

I remember telling everyone going into the season about my Lead Draft theory. No matter what, MVC had to be near the WCC and A-10 in conference RPI. Stay with the lead draft of top conferences.

We've pretty clearly lost the lead draft.

[pafan]

I remember telling everyone going into the season about my Lead Draft theory. No matter what, MVC had to be near the WCC and A-10 in conference RPI. Stay with the lead draft of top conferences.

We've pretty clearly lost the lead draft.

In absolute terms yeah. MVC is really nowhere close to the WCC this year.
Comparing the MVC to the WCC,
..... WCC ... MVC
T50 ... 3 ... 1
T100 .. 3 ... 3
T150 .. 7 ... 5
T200 .. 10 .. 6
T250 .. 10 .. 9

Because the bottom 6 teams are all bad, even if you put Creighton back in (Sagarin #4) and remove Loyola (sagarin #256), the MVC is still 11th.

[rlh04d]

I remember telling everyone going into the season about my Lead Draft theory. No matter what, MVC had to be near the WCC and A-10 in conference RPI. Stay with the lead draft of top conferences.

We've pretty clearly lost the lead draft.

Yep.

And WSU's contributions this year will be almost impossible to replicate in future years. We can hope this is as bad as the rest of the conference gets, and there's no where else to go but up ... but I don't know.

The Valley is on the outside looking in long term, I think. Being in the same category as the depleted Horizon/ Conference-USA is brutal.

[KC MVC FAN]

I COPIED THIS FROM THE TOPIC: " Is this the worst the Valley has ever been?
Postby rlh04d » January 22nd, 2014, 9:16 pm
It's absolutely the biggest gap between the top team and the rest. Probably since Bird.
It's all the Loyola/Creighton swap. This would be an amazing Valley season with Creighton. It's a very bad season with Loyola."
rlh04d""

If this forum wasn't sad in several places, it would be hilarious. Creighton is gone and Loyola is a new member---but's all Loyola and Creighton's fault.

Sorry, but need to look inside to everyone (except WSU or now Loyola) to place the blame for the MVC status.

Best course for the MVC is to ask WSU to PLEASE! PLEASE, PLEEAAASEEE leave the MVC. What would that do
1. Level the conference.
2. Create another slot for another new member--a school nearer the remainder MVC level of play and status(NO, I am not recommending UMKC or anyone else).
3. I am not a stats-RPI-SOS fan but I would have to expect/suppose everyone's numbers, Win/losses, RPI, SOS???? etc. wound have to improve if the totally dominating team(s)--- Creighton and now WSU-- were no longer around.
4. Open the possibility of a second MVC NCAA tournament bid (will still get a conference tourney champ automatic bid--plus a better shot at an at large bid.

Something else to consider---what happens if MSU decides to leave the MVC for another football conference--as several MVC posters have speculated/reported. Hey, I am a SMS/MSU old timer---but MSU leaving the MVC won't really hurt MVC BB---MSU hasn't been a really good or consistent BB team since Coach Spoonhour left for SLU 15 or so years ago.

[shocktheheart]

I COPIED THIS FROM THE TOPIC: " Is this the worst the Valley has ever been?
Postby rlh04d » January 22nd, 2014, 9:16 pm
It's absolutely the biggest gap between the top team and the rest. Probably since Bird.
It's all the Loyola/Creighton swap. This would be an amazing Valley season with Creighton. It's a very bad season with Loyola."
rlh04d""

If this forum wasn't sad in several places, it would be hilarious. Creighton is gone and Loyola is a new member---but's all Loyola and Creighton's fault.

Sorry, but need to look inside to everyone (except WSU or now Loyola) to place the blame for the MVC status.

Best course for the MVC is to ask WSU to PLEASE! PLEASE, PLEEAAASEEE leave the MVC. What would that do
1. Level the conference.
2. Create another slot for another new member--a school nearer the remainder MVC level of play and status(NO, I am not recommending UMKC or anyone else).
3. I am not a stats-RPI-SOS fan but I would have to expect/suppose everyone's numbers, Win/losses, RPI, SOS???? etc. wound have to improve if the totally dominating team(s)--- Creighton and now WSU-- were no longer around.
4. Open the possibility of a second MVC NCAA tournament bid (will still get a conference tourney champ automatic bid--plus a better shot at an at large bid.

Something else to consider---what happens if MSU decides to leave the MVC for another football conference--as several MVC posters have speculated/reported. Hey, I am a SMS/MSU old timer---but MSU leaving the MVC won't really hurt MVC BB---MSU hasn't been a really good or consistent BB team since Coach Spoonhour left for SLU 15 or so years ago.

If you can't get a second bid with WSU in the conference now...how would you get a second bid with them gone?

[KC MVC FAN]

Same way you could hope for a second NCAA bid now---1. The MVC tournament Champ gets the automatic bid. 2. The conference regular season champ gets beat in the MVC tournament and has a sufficiently strong record to garner an at large bid. Without WSU to beat up on everyone, hopefully a couple of teams could rise to the top from the masses. MVC would still be a top 12-15 conference without WSU--maybe as all other conference teams rebuild their records with no double losses to a dominating conference team, i.e., WSU, they could retain the number 11 or so ranking. I think something drastic would have to happen to see the conference rise to a 10 or 9 ranking---too many good conferences and teams today!

WSU, at least last year, this year, and till sometime in the future, has outgrown the MVC (same same as Creighton) . Continued WSU success brings WSU greater recruiting appeal.

[shocktheheart]

Same way you could hope for a second NCAA bid now---1. The MVC tournament Champ gets the automatic bid. 2. The conference regular season champ gets beat in the MVC tournament and has a sufficiently strong record to garner an at large bid. Without WSU to beat up on everyone, hopefully a couple of teams could rise to the top from the masses. MVC would still be a top 12-15 conference without WSU--maybe as all other conference teams rebuild their records with no double losses to a dominating conference team, i.e., WSU, they could retain the number 11 or so ranking. I think something drastic would have to happen to see the conference rise to a 10 or 9 ranking---too many good conferences and teams today!

WSU, at least last year, this year, and till sometime in the future, has outgrown the MVC (same same as Creighton) . Continued WSU success brings WSU greater recruiting appeal.

So how is this second team going to build a good enough resume to warrant an at large bid?

[TheAsianSensation]

The best way to assemble a tournament-worthy resume is to beat quality teams.

Removing Wichita removes the one chance at a quality win.

Removing Wichita from the MVC is a dagger to the at-large hopes of the conference as a whole. The removal of them decreases the chance of an at-large bid, tenfold. No, twentyfold. The removal of Wichita would be catastrophic to the at-large resumes of everyone else. I can't emphasize this enough. CATASTROPHIC. It would be the complete opposite of enhancing the chances of getting 2 teams in the NCAA tournament.

Do you know what conferences ranked 12-15 get every year? They are, every year, the conferences that whine the most about being a 1-bid league. 12-15 is not a good spot to get an at-large bid, period.

[shocktheheart]

The best way to assemble a tournament-worthy resume is to beat quality teams.

Removing Wichita removes the one chance at a quality win.

Removing Wichita from the MVC is a dagger to the at-large hopes of the conference as a whole. The removal of them decreases the chance of an at-large bid, tenfold. No, twentyfold. The removal of Wichita would be catastrophic to the at-large resumes of everyone else. I can't emphasize this enough. CATASTROPHIC. It would be the complete opposite of enhancing the chances of getting 2 teams in the NCAA tournament.

Exactly...just like it would help WSU this year if they had two or three games against Creighton.

[KC MVC FAN]

You'al get real. Hey guys, this is not rocket science. Stay where you are at--everybody getting whopped by WSU--WSU getting better and better with greater recruiting capabilities, your crying and wring your hands because no one can gets better--WSU and others policing all the good recruits--only one NCAA bid every year, etc. I had the impression the posters on this forum were for the most part real BB fans and knew something about the game---changing my mind--appears most are math heads quoting some else's number and stats. How do you build your team----1. better recruiting---but already talked around lower MVC ranking and sinking stats with one dominating team (WSU) adversely effecting everyone else's recruiting .---2. Better coaching--if your coach is getting the job done get rid him. 3. Win some games--a few or lot more than you lose. And for emphasis--everyone get whopped two game all the time is not going to build the conference.

BYE BYE WSU. Good luck and continue doing good things in some other conference.!!!