WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Re: WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Postby honestace » February 17th, 2014, 10:28 pm

rlh04d wrote:I look at "gimmicks" in sports as being something outside of the norm that are, for the most part, effective because they're rare. And are used for the most part because the coach believes they have to rely on something out of the ordinary to have an attempt at winning.

Evansville plays a very different brand of basketball than most teams. I think it's more effective because of the rarity with which it's used.

In college football, I think of the triple option the same way. The triple option wouldn't be very effective if more teams were using it. It mostly relies on a team not seeing it before that season, and then not having much time to prepare for it.

In baseball, I consider the knuckleball to be a bit of a gimmick.

There's a reason the triple option offense in college football is a preferred method of play for the service academies. There's a reason why 40-year-old pitchers are able to be effective when they rely on the knuckleball. And there's a reason why Evansville relies on setting endless screens for one effective scorer. They're effective because they're different, and they're used because the people using it believe they can't be effective with a more standard method.

You can be successful with what I consider gimmicks, to a degree. Evansville can upset Wichita State twice in the same season they go to the Final Four. Georgia Tech won an ACC Championship once using the triple option. RA Dickey won a Cy Young with the knuckleball in 2012.

But knuckleballers aren't generally the lead guy in the rotation, and there's a reason Dickey was nearly 40 before he had his one great year. There's a reason why service academies don't win national championships, and why Georgia Tech's record is abysmal when teams have longer than a week to prep for their offense. And there's a reason why Evansville likely won't ever compete for a Valley championship, despite continuously having the league's leading scorer. There's a reason that power pitchers dominate major league lineups, and why the teams that win college football and basketball championships are generally built along established blueprints (generally pro-style teams with talented offensive/defensive lines in football, teams that are effective on both offense and defense with talented PGs in basketball, both able to play multiple styles effectively).

Gimmicks are effective. But you're usually establishing a ceiling on your success in utilizing them.

I'll eat crow if DJ and Simmons prove me wrong next year, but I firmly believe Evansville would be a more effective team if they concentrated on a more equal distribution of the ball and an inside-out offensive style utilizing Mock more than this same tired style of running endless screens to break one player open. Evansville has been tremendously lucky in the last few years by keeping their one offensive threat healthy. Evansville is always one injury away from a completely ruined season. That's not how good teams are built.

WSU might lose a game to Evansville sometimes, but no one will ever deny that WSU is the better team. And there's a reason why WSU could lose any player on the team and still be a good team. Postseason success would be limited by losing a Baker, or Early, or Van Vleet, or Cotton, but without any one of those players, that's still an NCAA tournament team. If Evansville loses Balentine early next season, they probably won't win more than 10 games.



Very intelligent post and overall discussion of the gimmick aspect of UE basketball. As an Evansville native hoping for a turn-around of our program I can say I agree with everything being discussed here. The gimmick definitely puts a ceiling on the program. And does so with the added negative of doing it with a style of play that is not entertaining to watch. Having 1 guy run off of screens for 30 seconds hoping to get a holding foul called so we can shoot free throws is not an entertaining style of play. It's pretty much eroded all community support for the program. If it were successful that would be one thing, but to settle for a boring style of play that is not successful is a bad combination.

The 5 minute stretch where Mock was actually involved in the Wichita State game was without question the most exciting 5 minutes of basketball a UE fan has seen in years. Unfortunately we know that was just a fluke and Marty will get them back to basics by the time the next game rolls around.
honestace
MVC Walk On
MVC Walk On
 
Posts: 1
Joined: February 17th, 2014, 9:17 pm

Re: WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Re: WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Postby 2livewu » February 17th, 2014, 10:29 pm

I'm sorry........"escape"????
2livewu
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 815
Joined: April 11th, 2011, 9:55 pm

Re: WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Postby sixth ace » February 17th, 2014, 11:02 pm

2livewu wrote:I'm sorry........"escape"????

great word isn't it
ACES
ACES
ACES
I'M ONBOARD
User avatar
sixth ace
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1231
Joined: August 5th, 2010, 7:53 pm

Re: WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Postby Snaggletooth » February 17th, 2014, 11:35 pm

sixth ace wrote:
2livewu wrote:I'm sorry........"escape"????

great word isn't it


Evansville was just happy to escape Ron Baker....
Snaggletooth
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1493
Joined: August 10th, 2010, 9:46 pm

Re: WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Postby mvcfan » February 18th, 2014, 12:06 am

sixth ace wrote:
2livewu wrote:I'm sorry........"escape"????

great word isn't it


If the game had gone on a few minutes longer, the lead would have been 25 points. Except that Marshall calls off the dogs faster than any other coach in the league would. :roll:
mvcfan
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 634
Joined: July 31st, 2012, 10:57 pm

Re: WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Postby rlh04d » February 18th, 2014, 12:44 am

2livewu wrote:I'm sorry........"escape"????

He has to have something to hang his hat on.
User avatar
rlh04d
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: February 24th, 2012, 9:15 pm

Re: WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Postby rlh04d » February 18th, 2014, 12:48 am

honestace wrote: If it were successful that would be one thing, but to settle for a boring style of play that is not successful is a bad combination.

Yeah ... I've seen that happen before. Coaches usually have a much shorter leash with fans when the style of play isn't exciting.

Evansville seems to give a pretty big leash, though.
User avatar
rlh04d
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: February 24th, 2012, 9:15 pm

Re: WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Postby Snaggletooth » February 18th, 2014, 6:05 am

It looks like Evansviille fans are the new creighton - just without the success.
Snaggletooth
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1493
Joined: August 10th, 2010, 9:46 pm

Re: WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Postby pafan » February 18th, 2014, 7:27 am

I'll see if I can fish out a DoubleAceAlum for you.
sad Evansville alum
User avatar
pafan
MVC Valued Member
MVC Valued Member
 
Posts: 1747
Joined: August 10th, 2010, 9:03 am
Location: Evansville

Re: WSU v. Evansville 2-16-14

Postby GoAcesgo » February 18th, 2014, 10:49 am

I hear this talk of talent in the past but not winning anything, I beg to differ, based on other schools we beat out, this young group we have the fresh. and sophs. are the best recruits we have had at UE in years, do the research you will find they guys we are getting starting getting better 2 years ago, I think by next year we will compete for a top 4 finish, then the year after that compete for top 2 spots anything much lower Marty will be gone, thats my opinion, we just haven't had the recruits to make big strides, I know that is one aspect of a good coach, but I feel like Marty is a good x's and o's Coach.
GoAcesgo
MVC Role Player
MVC Role Player
 
Posts: 146
Joined: December 4th, 2013, 10:23 am

PreviousNext

Return to Missouri Valley Conference Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 120 guests