Article: A10 should look at adding Wichita St

[rlh04d]

That's what I was saying.

If WSU bolts and s*** starts to get crazy the conference RPI is going to plummet. That could mean that the MAC, if an option for either ISUr or UNI would be a very attractive option to allow football to continue and play in a league better than the OVC, Summit, etc...

It's the basketball that's kept them around and will keep them around as long as it's at a highish level.

I don't understand why you're making any assumption regarding the MAC being an option.

IMO, if the MAC was an option, ISUr and UNI would be gone regardless of WSU being in the MVC. The MAC seems like a fan pipe dream to me. You guys aren't staying in the FCS by choice.

Not for you specifically, but there seems to be some weird association here between basketball conference affiliation and FCS football affiliation. It doesn't matter where your FCS football team is located. No MVC team is moving conferences because of FCS football.

[havoc]

Fair enough. Springfield metro is slightly larger than half the size of Wichita metro and Wichita metro is slightly less than half the size of Cinci/Louisville/Memphis. As for the city proper, Wichita is again more than twice as big as Springfield and roughly the same size as Memphis/Cinci/Louis. Also there would be Tulsa. We are closer in size to all of the above then every MVC city except perhaps Des Moines and Springfield, but MSU is also a good fit for us.

Metro sizes according to Wikipedia:

Evansville - 353,676
Peoria - 373,590
Springfield - 436,712
Des Moines - 588,999
Wichita - 636,105

Memphis - 1,316,100
Louisville - 1,334,872
Cincinnati - 2,114,580

Seems to be there are a lot more similar sized cities in the MVC, not to mention they are geographically closer, than Memphis, Louisville, and Cincinnati.

[kcmsaluki12]

Honest question, why are WSU fans so obsessed with leaving the Valley? Seriously, you're stuck in no man's land. The MVC is a good conference that's just in a really bad year. I'm sorry it had to happen when WSU has arguably their best team ever. The grass ain't always greener on the other side. I don't see why WSU can't be contend with being the banner carrier in the MVC.

[Wufan]

Fair enough. Springfield metro is slightly larger than half the size of Wichita metro and Wichita metro is slightly less than half the size of Cinci/Louisville/Memphis. As for the city proper, Wichita is again more than twice as big as Springfield and roughly the same size as Memphis/Cinci/Louis. Also there would be Tulsa. We are closer in size to all of the above then every MVC city except perhaps Des Moines and Springfield, but MSU is also a good fit for us.

Metro sizes according to Wikipedia:

Evansville - 353,676
Peoria - 373,590
Springfield - 436,712
Des Moines - 588,999
Wichita - 636,105

Memphis - 1,316,100
Louisville - 1,334,872
Cincinnati - 2,114,580

Seems to be there are a lot more similar sized cities in the MVC, not to mention they are geographically closer, than Memphis, Louisville, and Cincinnati.

No, WSU is roughly half the size of those listed (I thought i saw Cinci at 1.4mil) and again you are ignoring Tulsa. Other than Des Moines, the cities you listed are roughly half the size of WIchita...so it's kinda similar...like I said. Also, the city proper is very close in size and these are public schools located in medium/large metros. I don't even understand what you are arguing.

[Wufan]

Honest question, why are WSU fans so obsessed with leaving the Valley? Seriously, you're stuck in no man's land. The MVC is a good conference that's just in a really bad year. I'm sorry it had to happen when WSU has arguably their best team ever. The grass ain't always greener on the other side. I don't see why WSU can't be contend with being the banner carrier in the MVC.

We want to compete on the highest level possible.

[CBB_Fan]

Without Creighton, Tulsa, Saint Louis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Houston, or Memphis we don't have a real geographic or cultural connection to the new-look Indiana/Illinois small town conference the MVC has started to become.

What sort of geographic or cultural connection does Wichta State have with Louisville, Cincinnati, or Memphis?

They are all public universities named after the city they play in. All in are 2nd level cities, cities that may be regionally important (largest or 2nd largest in state), but are far from the mega-cities (NY, LA, Chicago) that can host a large number of schools and pro teams. Like Wichita,those cities all originally grew because of their connection to transportation (rivers first, then rail).

As far as basketball culture goes, all are public schools with a long-standing connection to Wichita back in the "good ole days." All were in the MVC with Wichita, and that was an MVC that on a completely different level of national relevance. Each of those schools had football (at least for a while) and still considers basketball its main sport.

[Snaggletooth]

WSU is not going to AAC or A-10 any time in the immediate future. WSU is committed to the MVC. MVC is down this year, but will be back. WSU doesn't have to leave the MVC to compete at the highest levels - this year is the testament to this.

[havoc]

Fair enough. Springfield metro is slightly larger than half the size of Wichita metro and Wichita metro is slightly less than half the size of Cinci/Louisville/Memphis. As for the city proper, Wichita is again more than twice as big as Springfield and roughly the same size as Memphis/Cinci/Louis. Also there would be Tulsa. We are closer in size to all of the above then every MVC city except perhaps Des Moines and Springfield, but MSU is also a good fit for us.

Metro sizes according to Wikipedia:

Evansville - 353,676
Peoria - 373,590
Springfield - 436,712
Des Moines - 588,999
Wichita - 636,105

Memphis - 1,316,100
Louisville - 1,334,872
Cincinnati - 2,114,580

Seems to be there are a lot more similar sized cities in the MVC, not to mention they are geographically closer, than Memphis, Louisville, and Cincinnati.

No, WSU is roughly half the size of those listed (I thought i saw Cinci at 1.4mil) and again you are ignoring Tulsa. Other than Des Moines, the cities you listed are roughly half the size of WIchita...so it's kinda similar...like I said. Also, the city proper is very close in size and these are public schools located in medium/large metros. I don't even understand what you are arguing.

Cities that are 300,000-600,000 have a lot more in common that 600,000-120,000. Also, city propers mean very little. In terms of city size, Indianapolis is larger than Atlanta but no reasonable person would believe that. I'm not buying the claim the poster made that Wichita has more in common with Cincinnati, Louisville, and Memphis.

I'm ignoring Tulsa because I will buy that they have geography is common with WSU. I also left out Huston.

[rlh04d]

Honest question, why are WSU fans so obsessed with leaving the Valley? Seriously, you're stuck in no man's land. The MVC is a good conference that's just in a really bad year. I'm sorry it had to happen when WSU has arguably their best team ever. The grass ain't always greener on the other side. I don't see why WSU can't be contend with being the banner carrier in the MVC.

The same reason why every other program has left the Valley.

The Valley is permanently positioned as a pretty good midmajor conference. Borderline top ten moving forward, but it will always survive. It has been clear for decades that survival, rather than improvement, is the focus of the Valley. Wichita fans have sat back and watched numerous programs leave the conference and become bigger and bigger: Memphis, Louisville, Cincinatti, Saint Louis, now Creighton, and so on.

We can stay in the Valley and build a Gonzaga type profile ... But Gonzaga isn't what we want to be. We want to be able to see every game on national television when we're a top five team. We want to be able to up our revenue so we can continue to pay Gregg Marshall, or replace him with another great coach. We want to play teams that have a dedication to high level basketball.

We don't want to play in a conference where no other program can afford to pay $1 million for a coach. Where we have to be flirting with history to get conference games on ESPN. Where every program is filling half their seats on average.

There simply isn't much margin for error in the Valley ... Either we're great or we're invisible. If a Gonzaga goes on a two or three year slump, they become invisible. You can fall off for a few years in a major conference and still be fine. And Gonzaga has Saint Mary's at least.

The Missouri Valley Conference is on a long downward spiral. Decades long. This conference will likely never be in the top 8 again, and even being top 10 is a stretch. Missouri State clearly wants to go to the Sun Belt. UNI and Illinois State clearly want to go to the MAC. We may never have a better shot to move than right now given geographic disadvantages, and if we don't make a move soon, I don't want to imagine the types of programs that would be next in line to replace other teams that might leave.

[CBB_Fan]

I think the decades long devolution of the Valley is the main thing that is making Wichita State anxious now. The MVC as-is is just a decent mid-major conference in a down year. They'll never compete with even the worst power conference teams, and they are solidly behind the AAC, MWC, and BE. They are competing with the A10 and the WCC, even though right now they are third in that race.

But going forward, the devolution is set to continue. Illinois State will go, and we'll replace them with another Loyola. Then MSU, and another Loyola. Then UNI, for yet another Loyola. Eventually a lot of the somewhat strong schools will have left for greener pastures themselves, leaving us in what is clearly a second or third tier mid-major conference. A conference like the Colonial, or the Horizon League, or worse.

Wichita State cannot afford to let that happen. We've been nonreactive for decades, watching as we've gone from a power conference in the 50s and 60s, to a good conference in the 80s, to an good midmajor conference in the 2000s (the 90s didn't exist to us), and now to potentially a bad or even mediocre midmajor conference. Some would argue we should have tried much harder to leave while we had a chance early on.