Article: A10 should look at adding Wichita St

[rlh04d]

"The Grass is always greener" or so the story goes. Look at Butler this year. In the past they were kings of hte Horizon. Now they are the bottom of the Big East and do not look to improve much. Creigton this year is the King there. Next year after McDermott leaves we will see. WSU leaving may look good right now, they have hade sucess the past few years. before that they were ok. The MVC is a good conference and personnally glad to be in it even though we have sucked much of the last decade.

Wichita State has been in the Missouri Valley Conference since 1945. About 50 years longer than Evansville.

Maybe you're not a fan of the right team to make references to being loyal to a conference and not looking to upgrade your place in the conference pecking order? Evansville would have looked to move up long ago if you had any level of success in the MVC that would have made it possible. You're glad to be in the MVC because it's the best you can do.

The real question would be, do you regret coming to the MVC from the Horizon, considering Evansville was somewhat successful in the Horizon, and completely ineffective in the MVC? Would you prefer to have been successful in a smaller conference?

Things like this are silly, because it requires people to complain about WSU fans wanting out who cheer for teams that: 1) Are actively trying to leave the conference themselves; 2) Have only been in the conference 20 years since they last abandoned a conference; 3) Want to leave the conference to move up but can't.

And it doesn't matter if Creighton is unsuccessful next year ... I bet they will be. More importantly, they're making $5 million a year in TV money and can easily replace McDermott with a better coach if he fails. And they will have every single game televised. Would you rather be the king of the SWAC or be the last place team in the ACC? It's not even a competition. Ruling a lower level conference isn't anyone's goal. You can turn around a last place ACC team in two years ... you can dominate the SWAC for 20 years and the average fan still won't know who you are.

[CBB_Fan]

"The Grass is always greener" or so the story goes. Look at Butler this year. In the past they were kings of hte Horizon. Now they are the bottom of the Big East and do not look to improve much. Creigton this year is the King there. Next year after McDermott leaves we will see. WSU leaving may look good right now, they have hade sucess the past few years. before that they were ok. The MVC is a good conference and personnally glad to be in it even though we have sucked much of the last decade.

They also lost their head coach and at least three of their top players. If Wichita State went to the AAC and lost Marshall, Van Vleet, Baker, and Early we'd almost certainly look like Butler does now and Creighton will next year. They don't suck because they changed conferences, they suck because their team sucks. The only difference is that now Butler and Creighton have millions in the bank and fertile recruiting grounds to try and rebuild their teams.

[GoAcesgo]

"The Grass is always greener" or so the story goes. Look at Butler this year. In the past they were kings of hte Horizon. Now they are the bottom of the Big East and do not look to improve much. Creigton this year is the King there. Next year after McDermott leaves we will see. WSU leaving may look good right now, they have hade sucess the past few years. before that they were ok. The MVC is a good conference and personnally glad to be in it even though we have sucked much of the last decade.

They also lost their head coach and at least three of their top players. If Wichita State went to the AAC and lost Marshall, Van Vleet, Baker, and Early we'd almost certainly look like Butler does now and Creighton will next year. They don't suck because they changed conferences, they suck because their team sucks. The only difference is that now Butler and Creighton have millions in the bank and fertile recruiting grounds to try and rebuild their teams.

I disagree with some of what you guys are saying, Butler was 10-2 before the conference started with its 2 losses to quality teams, they suck in the Big East, but have no doubt would be fighting for another NCAA bid if still in the Horizon, I think teams can get in over their head Evansville perfect example, I would rather be in a smaller conference that you have a chance at least every few years to make the tournament, in the ACC, how long has it been since Georgia Tech or Wake Forest has had a real standout year? I think almost every conference has their perreinal losers, Big Ten- Northwestern, Nebraska Big 12 TCU, SEC Miss St. MVC Evansville so I could go on but my point is who is to say WSU doesn't become a Georgia Tech or a Butler

[rlh04d]

I disagree with some of what you guys are saying, Butler was 10-2 before the conference started with its 2 losses to quality teams, they suck in the Big East, but have no doubt would be fighting for another NCAA bid if still in the Horizon, I think teams can get in over their head Evansville perfect example, I would rather be in a smaller conference that you have a chance at least every few years to make the tournament, in the ACC, how long has it been since Georgia Tech or Wake Forest has had a real standout year? I think almost every conference has their perreinal losers, Big Ten- Northwestern, Nebraska Big 12 TCU, SEC Miss St. MVC Evansville so I could go on but my point is who is to say WSU doesn't become a Georgia Tech or a Butler

Ask 100 random people on the street if they know who Georgia Tech is. Then ask them if they know who Butler is. Then ask them if they know who Evansville is. And that's the difference.

And Butler was 10-2 against the 292nd non-con SOS. That's not a legitimate argument. They played and beat crap teams. They had one single top 100 win in the non-con: Vanderbilt at 96. Butler is not doing well because they're not a good team this year. It doesn't matter what conference they're in. They'd be doing just as bad against the A10.

If you feel like it's better to be in a smaller conference, you should push Evansville's administration to go back to the Horizon. Or maybe you could get into the Big Sky? You'd have an easier road to the tournament, after all, and isn't that what is important?

Every program goes through downspells. The important thing is that generally, you have to be good to move up, but you don't move back down if you become bad. You move up as fast as you can to give yourself the best long-term situation, and then you do your best once you're there. But moving up is what puts you in a better position long term. If WSU goes into a downturn next year, they become a trivia question that gets a game or two on ESPN where the commentators can go "Remember when they made the Final Four?" If WSU gets into a bigger conference and then goes into a downturn, they're still on TV every game, and never leave the public consciousness.

[MSUDuo]

I still don't know where people are getting that MSU, UNI and ISU are bailing. There is almost no substantial evidence behind the Bears making a move other than that clusterf*** started by CaseyGarrison4Prez awhile back. I'm pretty sure that's one of the only times I've heard someone mention that MSU was "wanted" elsewhere and it turned into a poorly thought out hoax. ISU has a couple things going for it but they are hardly the most attractive MVC school. UNI has a ways to go until they have the financial stability to make a move possible. The argument about Northern Illinois not wanting the latter 2 in the MAC is pretty compelling and I have no idea who else would want them at the FBS level. The B1G/XII aren't going to come calling anytime soon.

For MSU, I think right now you just try and read between the lines. We renovating the football stadium. We're adding women's sports. We're building sports complexes with the hope of adding more sports in the future.

Obviously no one has come out and said anything official. And yes, I guess the University could be expecting a huge swing in male/female attendance ratio that would require the additional sports. But it is also reasonable to conclude that a President, who is adamant about football being played at the highest level, is preparing as well for a move.

Message board rumors are just that, rumors but our name keeps popping up with the Sun Belt, CUSA, or MAC.

Personally, I would love to see 5 MVC football teams go to the MAC together. MSU, UNI, SIU, and the ISU schools and make the MAC an 18 team football conference.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

For anyone else who was confused, if you type "UNI" on this board it auto-corrects to UNI.

I noticed that when I previewed my earlier post. I typed "N -- I -- U" (without hyphens) to signify Northern Illinois, but it was filtered to UNI.

As for Northern Illinois' prospects of going to the American -- because the incentive of needing to keep the Chicago market is only what would pique the MAC's interest in Illinois State, IMO -- are very slim. Northern Illinois has the 2nd lowest endowment in the MAC, just a sliver above Eastern Michigan. That's an important number to the AAC (look up the endowments of recent adds compared to N Illinois). Northern Illinois' infrastructure is nowhere near those of the AAC's. You can only enter DeKalb on a two land road with potholes, and the nearest exits are several miles off (13 to the west, 10-12 to the east).

Buffalo + the Ohio 6 are not interested in permanently expanding west of Chicago. They'd be willing to go south for proven successful FBS programs like Western Kentucky (now off the board), Middle Tennessee (now off the board), and Arkansas State (Plan B/C for the Red Wolves), but that's it. Otherwise, the MAC's vying for Eastern exposure/recruiting when it comes to successful FCS programs. That's why James Madison has an offer to join (the Dukes are weighing their MAC offer with their Sun Belt offer -- we should hear for sure this calendar year). If JMU joins the MAC, that's when we watch Missouri State's bid for the Sun Belt's final spot (regardless if most deem that as poor direction). Also, recall that very recent provisions deincentivize G5 conferences from expanding beyond 12, so the balance of call-up slots is likely just 1, maybe 2, for the foreseeable future.

Northern Illinois' success is predicated on hitting the IL/WI/MN/IA/NE/KS recruits the B1G/BXII miss out on -- they're the closest (and best non-BCS school) for many of those kids. That situation is exactly why the Huskies clinched an Orange Bowl berth and flirted with the Fiesta Bowl. Northern Illinois is fully aware that allowing Northern Iowa and/or Illinois State into the MAC cuts into that vast recruiting market and could be a killer. So Buffalo + the Ohio 6 + Northern Illinois have incentive not to add UNI or ISU. That leaves the 3 Michigans, who almost always votes with NIllinois anyway, and then Balls Tate.

As for the "Dakotas would never join the MVC due to their cozy Sioux Falls tourney" sentiment a few pages back, NDSU & SDSU allegedly sent feelers out to Wichita + the MVFC schools just last year. The Sioux Falls tourney is beneficial to the Jackrabbits' revenues, but they barely affect NDSU's, who's the far more attractive prospect of the duo anyway. NDSU isn't stupid -- they know while the Summit's an underrated league, it's on thin ice. It's not the ideal geographical league for Fort Wayne, IUPUI, or WIU. Denver's endowment is attractive and they're the favorite for the WCC's next add if it expands again. Oral Roberts is always a flight risk. If NDSU/SDSU were offered, you bet they'd take it to ensure survival.

That said, I have no interest in SDSU, and only NDSU if the MVC loses more than 2. Give me Belmont and/or Oral Roberts first (assuming SLU/UD/NMSU would reject or not carry the votes) and that's only if the MVC is poached again.

The MVC is fine if Evansville, Indiana State, and Missouri State have administrations who realize their Basketball programs are the best avenue to market their academics. Each school had success with it at some point in the past, but recent damage was inflicted. Southern Illinois is trying, but Lowery set them back a decade, which few could have predicted. Illinois State & Loyola are also trying, the latter will get there the sooner they replace Moser. Bradley will be back eventually, UNI is low on financials but committed, Drake will improve. Missouri State's administration worries me, and I suspect the President is blatantly trying to morph it into a Football school.

If certain schools don't get their act together, don't be surprised if vultures like the A-10 circle us and at least try to do what they want with us. If Presidents get their act together, at least the MVC will have more control of its own fate.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

The Sun Belt's never sent a team to the Top-25 rankings, and only 2 of its 7 bowl-eligible teams received bowl invitations. Arkansas State & Louisiana are nice, but the remainder is a hell hole.

Basketball is a much more attainable vehicle for Missouri State to market itself, IMO. If the President diverted his focus on football to basketball, MSU would be damn close to a Top-10 non-BCS/BE/AAC program capable of a couple Sweet-16 runs per decade. Hell, they were within the vicinity of that 15 years ago, and were poorer then.

You'll only get similar marketing in football via a Top-25 program (never accomplished in Sun Belt history) or winning the Access bid (fighting 70 schools for 1 spot -- good luck).

I know where I'd place my odds, but that's just me. MSU is capable of so much more in Basketball, that's the program with history and Springfield's flavor, and it's an easier road than the Football one.

[TheAsianSensation]

I wonder if the admins at Missouri State (not the fans, but the admins) think achieving notoriety through basketball is impossible because of what happened a couple of years ago (MSU becoming the only Valley regular season champ in forever to miss the NCAAs) and in 2006 (RPI of 21, 4 other Valley schools dance while they're left behind). And now that they got screwed twice, they figure football is the better path now.

[MSUDuo]

The Sun Belt's never sent a team to the Top-25 rankings, and only 2 of its 7 bowl-eligible teams received bowl invitations. Arkansas State & Louisiana are nice, but the remainder is a hell hole.

Basketball is a much more attainable vehicle for Missouri State to market itself, IMO. If the President diverted his focus on football to basketball, MSU would be damn close to a Top-10 non-BCS/BE/AAC program capable of a couple Sweet-16 runs per decade. Hell, they were within the vicinity of that 15 years ago, and were poorer then.

You'll only get similar marketing in football via a Top-25 program (never accomplished in Sun Belt history) or winning the Access bid (fighting 70 schools for 1 spot -- good luck).

I know where I'd place my odds, but that's just me. MSU is capable of so much more in Basketball, that's the program with history and Springfield's flavor, and it's an easier road than the Football one.

Here is a kicker though. We average about 9k for football. We haven't been good in 20 plus years now. Every year people come out for football. I think more would come out if we moved up and brought some "names" to Springfield. WKU hosted Indiana and Navy this year. You can't tell me that more people wouldn't come out to see Navy compare to Central Arkansas or Illinois State.

Sure, we get the nice crowd every once in a while for basketball now but our basketball attendance has been on the decline and we are averaging 5,500 this year and we are winning again.

I think it might be worth the trade off. Go FBS in football (Sun Belt) and you also get a basketball conference that has had success in the Big Dance before (WKU). I don't think it is an either/or situation. I think we can do and be decent at both. I love what President Smart is doing at MSU and he is the only reason I'm still on the football bandwagon. If we aren't going to commit to it, get rid of it and go full speed with basketball.

[uniftw]

Again...let it be known/said.


NDSU is going nowhere without SDSU for the foreseeable future.

When they moved from D2 to D1 they did it as a all or nothing deal. You couldn't have one with out the other...and that isn't about to change.