What constitutes a great season for WSU?

[glm38]

Less than a Sweet 16 will be disappointing, but still great season. An Elite 8 would make it the greatest season in WSU history IMO. A final four puts us even with Indiana State in 79/UNLV in 91, and shuts up all the nay-sayers. Anything beyond that, and the 2013-14 Wichita State Shockers will be known as one of the most dominant teams in the post-Wooden era.

Dealing with some of you could be insufferable in the future but I want one of these to happen.

Really? There have maybe been a few exceptions but I think Shox fans have been pretty classy this season.

I think the Shox season should already be classified as "great". If they make it to the sweet 16 or beyond in the tournament then their season could be further classified as historic.

[Hank]

Let me preface this reply by saying that I am a Creighton fan that has been lurking all year to see what's really going on in the Valley.

WSU needs to make a tournament run for anyone outside the program and the Valley to remember this year past this year. Butler made it to two consecutive title games and are not included in the "Blue Bloods". New England Patriots had an undefeated season and lost in the Super Bowl and the only time it's mentioned is when New England is playing. There are plenty of other examples of teams that are no longer remembered.

Nobody can take away what WSU has accomplished this year, but if you lose to a quality team in the tourney, to those outside looking in, you weren't as good as the record. You were still a really good team, but it gives them an argument to crow about.

So if the question is: What will make this a great season for WSU and Valley fans? It already is.

If the question is: What will make this a great season for everyone else? A final four or beyond.

For Creighton fans, we got used to this a while ago due to our performances in the tourney. We tout our players, our conference success, our attendance marks, etc., knowing full well the tourney success isn't there to back it up, but we've made peace with that. Depending on how this season ends for WSU, they may have to also.

[saluki762]

It's already a great season.

Will it be a terrible, good or great post season is what is yet to be decided.

[Wufan]

Let me preface this reply by saying that I am a Creighton fan that has been lurking all year to see what's really going on in the Valley.

WSU needs to make a tournament run for anyone outside the program and the Valley to remember this year past this year. Butler made it to two consecutive title games and are not included in the "Blue Bloods". New England Patriots had an undefeated season and lost in the Super Bowl and the only time it's mentioned is when New England is playing. There are plenty of other examples of teams that are no longer remembered.

Nobody can take away what WSU has accomplished this year, but if you lose to a quality team in the tourney, to those outside looking in, you weren't as good as the record. You were still a really good team, but it gives them an argument to crow about.

So if the question is: What will make this a great season for WSU and Valley fans? It already is.

If the question is: What will make this a great season for everyone else? A final four or beyond.

For Creighton fans, we got used to this a while ago due to our performances in the tourney. We tout our players, our conference success, our attendance marks, etc., knowing full well the tourney success isn't there to back it up, but we've made peace with that. Depending on how this season ends for WSU, they may have to also.

I think this is absolutely true. For continued national praise it's Final Four or bust.

[glm38]

Let me preface this reply by saying that I am a Creighton fan that has been lurking all year to see what's really going on in the Valley.

WSU needs to make a tournament run for anyone outside the program and the Valley to remember this year past this year. Butler made it to two consecutive title games and are not included in the "Blue Bloods". New England Patriots had an undefeated season and lost in the Super Bowl and the only time it's mentioned is when New England is playing. There are plenty of other examples of teams that are no longer remembered.

Nobody can take away what WSU has accomplished this year, but if you lose to a quality team in the tourney, to those outside looking in, you weren't as good as the record. You were still a really good team, but it gives them an argument to crow about.

So if the question is: What will make this a great season for WSU and Valley fans? It already is.

If the question is: What will make this a great season for everyone else? A final four or beyond.

For Creighton fans, we got used to this a while ago due to our performances in the tourney. We tout our players, our conference success, our attendance marks, etc., knowing full well the tourney success isn't there to back it up, but we've made peace with that. Depending on how this season ends for WSU, they may have to also.

I could be wrong of course but WSU seems much more likely to make a run again this year. The difference is their emphasis on defense. CU is very good this year (again). Their offense seems even better this year. But they lack a post presence and that killer instinct at the other end. It will be sad if you don't even make a S16 during the McDermott years.

[saluki762]

It will be sad if you don't even make a S16 during the McDermott years.

^this

[Hank]

WSU definitely has a better team than Creighton this year, and if we have an off shooting night and get beat in the rebounding margin, we could be out in the first round.

For me, that will not take away from this year. It has been an absolute joy to watch our seniors play together in the new Big East. Most of the games have been amazing to watch, either because of the newness of the opponent, the individual performance of Doug, Ethan, or other, or the competitiveness of the game. I've become a much bigger fan of Coach Mac due to his in season adjustments.

That is my point. Outsiders can look in and try to discredit a season all they want, and for Creighton, that will happen if they don't make it to the second weekend. For most Creighton fans, that won't stop us from calling this a great season. I still remember the 2002-2003 season very fondly, even though it was a first round exit. It will be sad for a month or so but I'll get over it.

Maybe that's the difference. I like our program. I have no aspirations of being Kansas or Duke. I like taking players and developing them over four years. That was my biggest fear in moving to the Big East, that we would lose that. For the first season anyway, it's working fine the way we are.

[Aargh]

Let me preface this reply by saying that I am a Creighton fan that has been lurking all year to see what's really going on in the Valley.

WSU needs to make a tournament run for anyone outside the program and the Valley to remember this year past this year. Butler made it to two consecutive title games and are not included in the "Blue Bloods". New England Patriots had an undefeated season and lost in the Super Bowl and the only time it's mentioned is when New England is playing. There are plenty of other examples of teams that are no longer remembered.

Nobody can take away what WSU has accomplished this year, but if you lose to a quality team in the tourney, to those outside looking in, you weren't as good as the record. You were still a really good team, but it gives them an argument to crow about.

So if the question is: What will make this a great season for WSU and Valley fans? It already is.

If the question is: What will make this a great season for everyone else? A final four or beyond.

For Creighton fans, we got used to this a while ago due to our performances in the tourney. We tout our players, our conference success, our attendance marks, etc., knowing full well the tourney success isn't there to back it up, but we've made peace with that. Depending on how this season ends for WSU, they may have to also.

There's one huge factor missing in this evaluation. WSU still needs to beat MSU this afternoon, but the undefeated season would separate WSU from anything CU accomplished by a significant margin.

The F4 already separated WSU from CU in the national perspective. People tend to remember F4 teams for a few years. They especially remember the ones who weren't expected to get there.

You are right about having a good run in the Valley, winning the league title regularly, and making the NCAA's regularly. That does very little to enhance the national perception of the team. Making a deep run in the tourney changes that. WSU did that and CU never did. That already had WSU in the national spotlight. Following that up with an undefeated regular season pretty much knocked it out of the park.

The undefeated season will be mentioned every year in February when there are still a couple of undefeated teams trying to see if they can match what Wichita State did in 2014. If the historical pattern holds up, it will be aabout another 10 years before a team finishes a regular season undefeated. that will have WSU mentioned over - and over - and over for the next 10 years or so. those mentions will be during high-profile games with a lot of naational audience.

WSU fans will not have to "settle" the way you've described CU fans.

[SHOXMVC]

WSU definitely has a better team than Creighton this year, and if we have an off shooting night and get beat in the rebounding margin, we could be out in the first round.

For me, that will not take away from this year. It has been an absolute joy to watch our seniors play together in the new Big East. Most of the games have been amazing to watch, either because of the newness of the opponent, the individual performance of Doug, Ethan, or other, or the competitiveness of the game. I've become a much bigger fan of Coach Mac due to his in season adjustments.

That is my point. Outsiders can look in and try to discredit a season all they want, and for Creighton, that will happen if they don't make it to the second weekend. For most Creighton fans, that won't stop us from calling this a great season. I still remember the 2002-2003 season very fondly, even though it was a first round exit. It will be sad for a month or so but I'll get over it.

Maybe that's the difference. I like our program. I have no aspirations of being Kansas or Duke. I like taking players and developing them over four years. That was my biggest fear in moving to the Big East, that we would lose that. For the first season anyway, it's working fine the way we are.

Hank, thanks for your posts. They were well presented.

Two quick thoughts. As an ardent fan of a team (WSU, CU, or any team for that mater), only the insider of a team will recognize the unseen intangibles. I'm with you in that regard. I disagree about "settling." If my team had so many promising years and didn't get to the second weekend of the ultimate tournament everybody measures success by, I wouldn't hurt myself over it, but I wouldn't dismiss it either. To a degree, I would be bothered by underachieving results with the talent and ability my team presented with over a significant period of time.

I am a huge Shocker fan. I was there during the lean years...and I was pissed at our underachieving results. I didn't settle and was vocal about it. At the same time I cheered and appreciated the players effort.

Let me say, I'm not trying to dis you or CU. In fact, I admire the quality program CU has had over the years.

[Hank]

This was never meant to be a WSU vs Creighton comparison post. I truly feel you have a better team, better defense, better post players. I was simply trying to point out that how this WSU team will be remembered is totally dependent upon if you are a fan, or if you are outside looking in. If you get beat by the first quality team you face in the tourney, then all this year's team is going to be is trivia in a future February.

"Remember that Wichita State team that had an undefeated regular season but didn't play anyone, team X is doing it after playing a far tougher schedule in a far better conference."

If you make a final four or championship game appearance, the narrative changes.

"Remember the 2013-2014 Wichita State team that had the undefeated regular season, now that was a great team."

If you have the sustained success you are expecting it changes again.

"Remember when Gregg Marshall was at Wichita State. Those teams were the launching pad to a great program."

The main point is that to fans of Wichita State, this team will be great either way.

And I never intended that Creighton fans are okay with settling. What I meant is that, like all fans, we remember our great teams with fondness regardless. Of course we want to win a championship and have a consistent Top 10 program. I would just rather not lose our identity in the process.