Bears @ Shox

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Re: Bears @ Shox

Postby glm38 » March 3rd, 2014, 6:39 pm

Wufan wrote:
bleach wrote:
Wufan wrote:
How about this: Get REALLY good at basketball and join the AAC. When they have the need for an FBS team, MSU is ready to pounce!


Like 38, i'm a basketball guy so I would prefer the Valley.
Football AND baseball would be huge upgrades.
Not sure waiting till we are "ready" is an option with the limited availability. Seems like now or never.
Still wish we'd just drop football and focus on basketball but I understand others who feel differently.


All I can say is that I would't trade FCS football (where WSU was headed) for the past 10 years of WSU basketball. I'd LOVE for WSU to have this plus FBS football, but that's not really feasible under current circumstances.


I don't disagree with you. But fans that love football over b-ball would probably disagree.
User avatar
glm38
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2621
Joined: July 3rd, 2011, 2:00 pm
Location: Springfield, MO

Re: Bears @ Shox

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Re: Bears @ Shox

Postby rlh04d » March 3rd, 2014, 7:03 pm

glm38 wrote:It's just a rumor at this point. But there is definitely a desire among a lot of MSU fans and alumni to play FBS football rather than at our current lower level. It should be an upgrade in football over the long haul.

But a downgrade in basketball for sure. I'm a basketball guy so I'm not too wild about the idea. But it seems like football drives everything as far as conference alignment is concerned.

I know this isn't really directed at you, but personally, I don't see a major difference between the Sun Belt and FCS football. It's a higher level, but it's still a level WELL below the BCS conferences. It's even a level below the next group, such as the AAC and MWC ... it might even be below the MAC now.

I get that everyone wants to play in the FBS, and if Wichita State had a football team I would probably want them to play FBS football as well. But really, if you're outside of the major conferences, you'll always be outside of the system. At least basketball, through the NCAA tournament, allows you to crash the system and break your way in. Football doesn't really have that. I don't particularly believe non-major teams will ever be allowed into a four-team playoff ... it would have to get to eight before that ever was allowed.

And beyond that, it's almost impossible for a smaller school to build up a football team that can compete at that level. Basketball has natural advantages in the ability to build up teams from smaller conferences that can compete at the highest level: small number of players means you can get lucky with a couple really good players that can carry your team, one-and-done situation creates situations where the biggest names consistently lack experience and generally aren't as focused on team-play over individual accolades, the tournament obviously, and so on. And football, given the limitation of shorter schedules, is fundamentally structured to limit opportunities for teams to make a name for themselves -- conferences moving to nine game conference schedules, teams looking at the non-conference only for guaranteed wins, etc. Basketball scheduling is still stacked in the favor of the major conferences, but not nearly to the extent football is and is becoming. And even when you do start to break into the system, football scheduling is done so far out that it's rarely fast enough to really give you an opportunity to take advantage of it.

Personally, I think the importance of football has skewed the perspectives of schools into an odd thought process where football = money. I don't think that's true. I think schools and conferences are much better suited to build their brands through basketball.

That said, my goal if I was a MoSt fan would be to get into the Sun Belt and then focus on basketball primarily to build the brand. But I know that once MoSt gets into the Sun Belt, the focus will be on mediocre football like the rest of the conference.
User avatar
rlh04d
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2442
Joined: February 24th, 2012, 9:15 pm

Re: Bears @ Shox

Postby mvcfan » March 3rd, 2014, 9:25 pm

squirrel wrote:My use of the term "big boy" was only that they'd be playing at the highest possible level. Obviously with the playoff that is marginalized. But, the Sun Belt holds the last chip, possibly ever.

Of course if/when the Big 4 leave, then obviously that changes. I realize the playoff is the first step.

But, the Sun Belt did have a nice bowl season.


Well we played with the big boys in football at one time. In the 60's we went to a few bowl games, and our administration wanted to see us grow into a football power. We were in the Valley (Div.1 at that time) but we wanted more. We won some games against Oklahoma State a couple of times, K State, KU, should have beat Tennessee with a huge lead only to blow it. But we mostly lost (kind of like KU now). The result was that it bled us dry and we couldn't sustain anything. The health of our entire athletic program suffered even during an age when you could hire a really good head basketball coach for 150-200K. We were still good at basketball and baseball during the 80's. Now if you want to hire a good coach for any of these sports, you have to pay a much higher price, and you have to hire assistant coaches, and all of the scholarships to fund Title IX which didn't exist in the 1980's.

In closing, it is safe to say that if WSU brought back football, the Sunbelt wouldn't even be considered by the powers that be. It would either be all the way or no football That's also the feeling regarding basketball and baseball. Good Luck MSU.
mvcfan
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 634
Joined: July 31st, 2012, 10:57 pm

Re: Bears @ Shox

Postby glm38 » March 3rd, 2014, 9:41 pm

Over the last few years I've often wished MSU would drop football like CU and WSU did. That would still be my preference. But in this age of conference realignment there are definitely circumstances where not having football limits your options. So I see the pluses long term of MSU wanting to play FCS. If a university is committed to football (as MSU seems to be) then FCS is the way to go IMO.

I do think MSU is committed to basketball and will continue to trend upward regardless.

There is nothing official as far as I know. We could still be a member of the MVC for a long time.
User avatar
glm38
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 2621
Joined: July 3rd, 2011, 2:00 pm
Location: Springfield, MO

Re: Bears @ Shox

Postby Snaggletooth » March 3rd, 2014, 9:48 pm

glm38 wrote:
I don't disagree with you. But fans that love football over b-ball would probably disagree.


I was looking at MOST football attendance expecting to see something "big time". MOST only draws on 8,700 while a ND State (18,622), UNI (12,572), Youngstown (13,506). And then I see losing record. I was underwhelmed at MOST football prowess and fan support.
Snaggletooth
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1493
Joined: August 10th, 2010, 9:46 pm

Re: Bears @ Shox

Postby Ricardo del Rio » March 3rd, 2014, 9:55 pm

glm38 wrote:It's just a rumor at this point. But there is definitely a desire among a lot of MSU fans and alumni to play FBS football rather than at our current lower level. It should be an upgrade in football over the long haul.

But a downgrade in basketball for sure. I'm a basketball guy so I'm not too wild about the idea. But it seems like football drives everything as far as conference alignment is concerned.


If football is driving athletic department decisions, then someone is smokin' some pretty good stuff.

Maybe a lot of someones.
Ricardo del Rio
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1274
Joined: August 8th, 2010, 7:41 am

Re: Bears @ Shox

Postby mvcfan » March 3rd, 2014, 10:23 pm

When we played teams like Oklahoma State at home, we did pretty good with attendance as these pictures show if you scroll down the page. Our fans didn't seem to care as much to see teams like Indiana State, etc. at home. Most of these big games we had to play on the road and it was a losing battle.

http://shockernet.net/forum/showthread. ... e-Back-II-–-WSU-Football-–-WstateU-Archives&highlight=football
mvcfan
All MVC
All MVC
 
Posts: 634
Joined: July 31st, 2012, 10:57 pm

Re: Bears @ Shox

Postby Aargh » March 4th, 2014, 12:21 am

The MoSt fans who want FBS FB need to do some talking with their checkbooks. LARGE talking. 8,700 fans is not going to support an FBS team. Replacing a bunch of FCS teams that no one's heard of with a bunch of FBS teams that no one's heard of is not going to put many more butts in seats.

FB is where the money is and it's what's driving conference realignment, but the driving force behind that is TV revenues. If you're not in a conference getting the big TV revenue, you are screwed. You've got the huge expense of FBS FB, but you don't have the revenue stream your competition enjoys.

the bottom-end bowl games are a little like the C(xx) tourneys in basketball. You pay to play in them.

My thought is that unless you're putting 15K or so butts in seats for FB at the FCS level, it's tough to pay for a FB program without heavy alumni (or student) subsidies. To compete at any appreciable level at the FBS level, you better be able to put 40K butts in seats. If you want to average 40K, you better have a 50K stadium. Ever priced one of those?

There are schools playing FBS FB who are averaging under 20K attendance. Those schools are not making a name for themselves, are not getting any significant TV money, are not getting any significant bowl money, and have had their stadiums built long, long ago. They don't have the money to expand their stadiums. That's not a problem, because they don't have enough fan support to need to renovate their stadiums.
User avatar
Aargh
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1924
Joined: August 16th, 2010, 10:08 pm

Re: Bears @ Shox

Postby AndShock » March 4th, 2014, 12:40 am

If SWOMO makes the move to the Sun Belt they couldn't care less about their attendance. They will be entirely subsized by the BCS programs. Non-BCS FBS programs have been to known to get $1 million and more for playing 1 guarantee game.
AndShock
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1009
Joined: August 9th, 2010, 7:28 pm

Re: Bears @ Shox

Postby PantherSigEp » March 4th, 2014, 1:01 am

AndShock wrote:If SWOMO makes the move to the Sun Belt they couldn't care less about their attendance. They will be entirely subsized by the BCS programs. Non-BCS FBS programs have been to known to get $1 million and more for playing 1 guarantee game.


That $1 M likely won't be enough to cover their added costs in scholarship requirements and the fact they're already operating in the red.
[Insert snappy comeback]
User avatar
PantherSigEp
MVC Hall Of Famer
MVC Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 1231
Joined: December 12th, 2011, 2:59 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Missouri Valley Conference Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 60 guests