Shockers vs. Tulsa - Intrust Bank Arena

[jayball]

So you could have just said that. Look, I really like talking MVC sports. Not just the actual games but the insides of the athletic deptartments as well. There are a few of us that have been trying the new format. I want it to work. Smack talk is fine but not all day long it really does get so boring. If your goal is to just piss people off to get a cheap thrill, well thats what ruined the old board. I was guilty there too but if it returns I am gone and a lot of others will be too.

I'll try to stay on topic too. Jayball, I don't have a sense that anyone is better than WSU but I wouldn't be surprised if they lose 6+ games in the MVC. I just think enough teams have what it takes to win on any given night that I wouldn't be stunned to see UNI or CU in the mix at the end.

I think WSU has 3-4 loses in conference, unless they lose Mason Felter. Then it could be big trouble for the black and gold.

[WuDrWu]

Barring a substantial and unexpected loss of personnel, WSU is going to present matchup problems in the post position for most of the Valley. That's not to say they are unguardable or unbeatable, they are most certainly neither, but they are the team most likely to withstand and repel challenges from other teams when faced with adversities such as foul trouble, injuries, defections etc.

From an odds standpoint, they should be in pretty good shape over 18 games. Any one game, however, is a roll of the dice, especially if we can't get better PG play.

[WuDrWu]

My point was this: the University commissioned at least one survey to see if WSU fans would support playing all or most games at a downtown arena versus a renovated Henry Levitt arena. The vote wasn't close in favor of renovating Henry Levitt. Charles Koch stepped up when WSU's program was at the beginning of its renaissance under Turgeon. That committment on Koch's part and the feelings of Shocker fans who wish to play on-campus will not be cast aside now.

Short term I think you are probably correct. A game or three at the arena per season. But what if the Shocks start dominating Final Fours again......season ticket demand goes through the roof. Could there ever be a point where the extra 4-5K per game could make it finincially difficult not to play more games there? It seems plausible.

What is the shelf life of the Koch renovations? 15-20 years? You are nearly 10 years in. I realize there is a large emotional attachment to the roundhouse and Mr Koch would not want to feel like he's wasted his money, but you've topped out current capacity. At some point if the money was right, it would be tempting (if not prudent) to make a move to somewhere that would allow you to increase your attendance by 50%.

Maybe not, maybe you just jack up prices at Koch. But drawing in 15K and still having a top notch on campus arena for other sports wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

PS Fancy new arenas have cupholders sometimes, but I don't recomend Jameson and 2 yr olds. They just can't hold their liquor.

I wonder if "what if WSU starts dominating Final Fours again" will face the same scrutiny that some others have?

Anyways, you bring up a fair point, if and when demand gets to the point that it is viable to move. That would be a nice problem to have....one that I think we needn't spend much time considering. Mark had a stretch of 97-100% ticket sales over more than a couple of seasons. The number of seats is fine. They'll adjust the ticket prices if demand prevails. There just isn't going to be enough demand for $26 upper bowl tickets on a consistent basis to make it worthwhile.

Curious, what does the Q seat, upper and lower bowl, and how many upper bowl season tickets are sold, and at what price? What do think is a best guess average price of a single upper bowl ticket to a regular season game? Not standard rate but average considering whatever discounts are available, if any. Thanks!

[blueblood]

I could do some rerearch but here are my best guesses. I think for basketball it seats around 17500 to 18000. For an NCAA game closer to 17 for a Jay game I bet they could get over 18 thousand in. There are about 13,500 season ticket holders. Ticket prices vary from court side at I think $40, lower bowl for $30 and upper bowl I think are 20 or 25$. Now that being said, of the 13500 I am guessing 8 to 10000 of those make donations for the right to buy seats. I would guess the lower bowl which has a waiting list seats around 10000. As to the freebies. I would guess there normally only a couple hundred or less with discount tickets. There will be maybe 5 games they will boost numbers with groups like promise keepers or the like. Tonight for Samford the announced crowd will be 15 thousand something. There will probably be 13000 in the stands. I bet there will be 500 or so freebies. Like I think over Xmas break any high school kid with an ID can get in free.

[jayball]

I wonder if "what if WSU starts dominating Final Fours again" will face the same scrutiny that some others have?

Meant as a slightly funny/exaggered poke at WSU's postseason past.

I just wonder what the revenue difference would be for 10K at Koch vs 15K at Intrust? I'm sure it would take a really significant increase in revenue for WSU to even consider it. A multi-year run at conference titles and NCAA bids (and higher) would seem to add to the already strong demand, but there is little risk to sticking with Koch.

When CU made the move we didn't have a real choice....staying in the old smaller Civic dump was not remotely like leaving Koch Arena. We were fortunate to make the move right after Korver's senior year when community interest was very high. It allowed us to help build the fanbase and use the extra space.

It is pretty remarkable to think that we were averaging like 4K fans under Rick Johnson and then went to over 13K season ticketholders under Dana. He never broke through in March and seemed to go a bit wacky after the pig sooey thing but he really raised the bar immeasurably for the program.

The only things WSU and CU have going for them in the event of conference reshuffling is the fanbase, arenas, and maybe slightly biggerr TV markets than other Valley teams. Not sure it will be worth much in the face to BCS TV $$ but it is something.

[iSASO]

Solid!

[DoubleJayAlum]

Barring a substantial and unexpected loss of personnel, WSU is going to present matchup problems in the post position for most of the Valley. That's not to say they are unguardable or unbeatable, they are most certainly neither, but they are the team most likely to withstand and repel challenges from other teams when faced with adversities such as foul trouble, injuries, defections etc.

I know it is strange, but I'd say the exact same thing about the Jays, especially with GE now available. Unlike, WSU, we have a very solid PG. However, unlike WSU, our wings can't shoot very well and are questionable defenders.

[Aargh]

I was not impressed with IBA. The atmosphere was different. The intensity of the crowd was harder to build, the noise levels lower (that game would have been ear-splitting at CKA).

As far as playing more than one (or MAYBE 2) game a year there, you have to remember that there is a management company at IBA that engages in a capitalistic enterprise. They want to make money. Revenue has to be shared with Arena Management for all games played there.

There is no savings to offset the cost of playing there. CKA still has to be maintained.

CKA is a pure basketball facility with about 60 years of history and tradition. It's a great basketball venue and the round shape is especially active in getting the crowd involved. Games at CKA generate some excitement that I didn't really feel so much at IBA. One of the great things about going to a WSU game is the feeling you get when the entire crowd is standing, yelling, really getting into the game, and the sound level goes insane. THAT'S college basketball at it's finest for a spectator.

I would pay more for a season ticket at CKA than I would at IBA.

I just didn't get that same experience at IBA. At times I understood some of the Qwiet Center references. Where I was sitting I could just barely hear the pep band or the student section. The atmosphere is more like a "hushed crowd" at IBA and more like "a rowdy mob" at CKA.

[shocker3]

I could do some rerearch but here are my best guesses. I think for basketball it seats around 17500 to 18000. For an NCAA game closer to 17 for a Jay game I bet they could get over 18 thousand in. There are about 13,500 season ticket holders. Ticket prices vary from court side at I think $40, lower bowl for $30 and upper bowl I think are 20 or 25$. Now that being said, of the 13500 I am guessing 8 to 10000 of those make donations for the right to buy seats. I would guess the lower bowl which has a waiting list seats around 10000. As to the freebies. I would guess there normally only a couple hundred or less with discount tickets. There will be maybe 5 games they will boost numbers with groups like promise keepers or the like. Tonight for Samford the announced crowd will be 15 thousand something. There will probably be 13000 in the stands. I bet there will be 500 or so freebies. Like I think over Xmas break any high school kid with an ID can get in free.

Upper bowl seats for Creighton basketball games are $12. They were $9 just a few years ago. I go to 2 or 3 Jays games every year. The ticket price has never been more than $12 (I usually end up getting in on a free ticket- there have been plenty of promotions, but most of the games I go to these days are around the holidays).

My sister and brother and law have CU season tickets in the first row of the upper bowl, they have never had to make a donation (it must be lower bowl tickets only). Their season ticket price went up to $190 this year. Which is a bargain compared to what we have to pay for Shocker tickets and they actually have great seats.

[iSASO]

Just to drive home two points mentioned already.

1. No cost savings to WSU since CKA has to be maintained anyway.

2. Very little chance, I bet, for WSU to make significantly more profit at IBA. Four sections of good seats were set aside for the IBA season pass holders/general public so that ruins it for a lot of WSU season ticket holders. Plus, it is run by a very profit-oriented management company so that alone makes the deal a no-deal.

Those two things, along with the fact that WSU fans love their CKA, I just don't see it becoming a permanent home for Shocker Basketball.